Cheap 72mg nic post TPD

[speedfreek67]

@Badboybez I think one of the problems in this discussion is that it wasn't until quite late in the discussion that you told us you bought the nicotine as a sole trader. As such, I think PlumeBlu was interpreting your posts (I know I was!) as being relevant to a non B2B consumer. PlumeBlu was highlighting the fact that according to the regulations it is actually illegal for a US business to sell nicotine base with a strength over 20mg/ml to a UK consumer (non B2B).

The OP wasn't asking about B2B, the replies to the OP weren't about B2B, PlumeBlu's reply was not about B2B, but it seems your reply was about your experience buying nic B2B.

 

[Badboybez]

@Badboybez I think one of the problems in this discussion is that it wasn't until quite late in the discussion that you told us you bought the nicotine as a sole trader. As such, I think PlumeBlu was interpreting your posts (I know I was!) as being relevant to a non B2B consumer. PlumeBlu was highlighting the fact that according to the regulations it is actually illegal for a US business to sell nicotine base with a strength over 20mg/ml to a UK consumer (non B2B).

The OP wasn't asking about B2B, the replies to the OP weren't about B2B, PlumeBlu's reply was not about B2B, but it seems your reply was about your experience buying nic B2B.

hi speedfreek57,

How are you mate ?

Main problem was being classed as an idiot by someone who doesn't know me from adam (or eve) and then agrees with most of my points.

As I said in my reply #43 to post #40 from Leni.
So do I mate, far to many lately.
I never start one, just try to help / guide anyone who does.
Like suggest they PM each other not directly discuss it.
In fact i'm getting sick of it, especially after the slagging I seem to be getting in this thread.

Personally it does not matter to me.
I have enough freebase nicotine to last me 4 years, and enough nicotine salts to last about a year, so 5 years in total.

Just trying to help as usual, but don't think I will bother anymore.

The only thing I would say in addition is I don't think the notion that the US vendors cannot supply UK citizens is not correct. The sale in theory takes place in the US, and the vendor has no idea of the final destination of the goods, and probably does not care.
Maybe I should start an import / export business next....................
Especially pot brexit we will need trade deals with most of the world apart from the EU

Look after yourself mate.

Regards badboybez

 

[kris73]

I can't read YELLOW text!

 

[zouzounaki]

Well it is relevant, the communication contained it, and there is no rule about selling liquid in larger than 10ml bottles if there is no nicotine in it. Unless Fedex are saying they will not transport e liquid in bottles larger than 10ml.................

Well as I said I would probably lie to Fedex, as they are not HMRC.
If they discovered what it is, what the hell are they going to do if there is no problem with HMRC, refuse to deliver it because it is in a big bottle.
Interesting conundrum if they did, as you originally paid the shipping charge, and so are their customer.......
I would just say fine, leave it with customs, and I will pick it up, oh and we had better discuss your refunding me my fees because you were paid to deliver it, and have not.

The point is that their letter states they will return it to the sender, so you’ll not be able to pick it up from customs.

And the point about 0mg is that whether it’s legal or not, they are saying if they know that’s what’s in there, they’ll return it.

Just because you pay a shipping charge doesn’t mean they are obliged to deliver it if they believe it’s an illegal shipment or if it’s against their policies, especially if you lie to them about the content.

 

[Colonelboom]

hi speedfreek57,

How are you mate ?

Main problem was being classed as an idiot by someone who doesn't know me from adam (or eve) and then agrees with most of my points.

As I said in my reply #43 to post #40 from Leni.
So do I mate, far to many lately.
I never start one, just try to help / guide anyone who does.
Like suggest they PM each other not directly discuss it.
In fact i'm getting sick of it, especially after the slagging I seem to be getting in this thread.

Personally it does not matter to me.
I have enough freebase nicotine to last me 4 years, and enough nicotine salts to last about a year, so 5 years in total.

Just trying to help as usual, but don't think I will bother anymore.

The only thing I would say in addition is I don't think the notion that the US vendors cannot supply UK citizens is not correct. The sale in theory takes place in the US, and the vendor has no idea of the final destination of the goods, and probably does not care.
Maybe I should start an import / export business next....................
Especially pot brexit we will need trade deals with most of the world apart from the EU

Look after yourself mate.

Regards badboybez

OK,

I didn't agree with most of your points. I agree that TPD isn't fit for purpose and is confusing, I also agreed that FedEX are overreaching on their request. The rest you seem to be way off base about as far as retail sales go.

@Badboybez I think one of the problems in this discussion is that it wasn't until quite late in the discussion that you told us you bought the nicotine as a sole trader. As such, I think PlumeBlu was interpreting your posts (I know I was!) as being relevant to a non B2B consumer. PlumeBlu was highlighting the fact that according to the regulations it is actually illegal for a US business to sell nicotine base with a strength over 20mg/ml to a UK consumer (non B2B).

The OP wasn't asking about B2B, the replies to the OP weren't about B2B, PlumeBlu's reply was not about B2B, but it seems your reply was about your experience buying nic B2B.

As was said here, the entire conversation was about retail sales, I even went as far as the clearly state the differences between retail and B2B sales and my posts were all aimed obviously at retail but each time you basically said 'doesn't apply to me' 'I beg to differ' 'but I have been getting charged so it's OK' and also that you would lie to HMRC if you got a customs information request - something as a B2B customer you wouldn't need to lie about but to those trying to buy retail could land them in trouble should they followed your example. You also haven't had any 'slagging', you have had someone who deals with this business every day telling you that what you understand to be true (as a retail customer) was not correct and that you were helping spread misinformation.

I didn't call you an idiot, I stated that you obviously aren't getting the message from a retail perspective and that you are wrong. Now umpteen pages in you decide to let people know that you are infact buying B2B which if you had pointed out at the start I would have said, well in that case you shouldn't have clearance issues - you didn't.

On to your dig at me about importing toxic and hazardous gases, well as this isn't a thread about that I wouldn't try to state I know what the law is, if anybody asked me I would try to find the opinion of people that do know, rather than just claiming to know it all and then standing firm when challenged. As they are totally different goods I do know that the laws aren't the same.

Petty namecalling aside, because quite frankly I don't care if you think I am 'not one of the biggest players in the game' I will reiterate the same thing because it's applicable to those retail customers you are supposedly helping.

I don't think the notion that the US vendors cannot supply UK citizens is not correct. The sale in theory takes place in the US, and the vendor has no idea of the final destination of the goods, and probably does not care.

Once the goods come to the UK they fall within any legal guidelines, whether the US has no idea on the final destination or not is totally irrelevant as unless they are supplying TPD compliant goods that have gone through the notification and authorisation stages it's not legal to forward from customs to customer and can be seized, destroyed or returned. Obviously in your case and many others the goods are getting through but that is an oversight on customs not admission that it's legal.

You can buy handguns from various places across the globe, you can get them shipped to the UK too without much of an issue - by your example that would make them legal to buy too.

 

[zouzounaki]

@Badboybez of course the US vendor knows the final location of the goods. You order them from the US vendor and provide your postage details so they can send the goods to you. How could you possibly buy anything remotely if the vendor didn’t know where the goods were going?

 

[Badboybez]

I can't read YELLOW text!

Oh well, never mind eh (you didn't miss much...............)

 

[ZT]

Well, you say you know the law.
Obviously you do not know me, I employed by a company from Germany, I am also a sole trader, have been for several years.
I have worked all over the world for the last 20 years as a global service engineer, so know a thing, or to myself about getting parts etc released from customs.
When I buy nicotine from the US I am purchasing on my sole trader business.

I was being polite through this conversation, so am quite offended that you class me as "arguing the toss with someone who knows how the law applies"

Also why the hell should I believe you know the law / regulations.
I had never heard of you, or your juice company until you joined in this thread.
To be honest if you do actually run an e liquid company you then have a vested interest in doing all you can to persuade diy mixers that they are breaking the law !

Ouch - Leigh is one of the older E-liquid manufacturers on here - and a very nice popular juice range it is as well. EDIT : several juice ranges.
This is an industry veteran

He also sells shortfills and DIY stuff .. I really suspect he's only trying to explain the law as he understands it (which is also how I understand it) rather than trying to kibosh DIY - no one wants to do that.

 

[ZT]

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products

"Cross Border Sales

You need to register your business if you supply e-cigarette products via cross-border distance sales, for example online sales. This applies to:

businesses established in the UK selling e-cigarettes and / or refill containers to consumers in another EEA state (European Economic Area – the 28 EU Member States plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway)

businesses established in the EEA or third country selling to UK consumers. Business to business sales, that is sales not direct to consumers, do not need to be registered.

Registration is a legal requirement under the TPD. Without confirmation of registration businesses must not supply a relevant product to a consumer via a cross-border distance sale. The UK notification requirement applies to products supplied to UK consumers via a cross-border sale."

What this means, as far as I can make out, is that any business anywhere in the world that is selling e-cigarette products (which includes nicotine containing liquids) to consumers in the UK (but not B2B), needs to register and follow the UK rules.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

There are US companies in the list of registered companies.

This is exactly correct - I dont even think the wording is that ambiguous .. its fairly clear.

It sucks .. but it is clear.

 

[JesusFoggingChrist]

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products

"Cross Border Sales

You need to register your business if you supply e-cigarette products via cross-border distance sales, for example online sales. This applies to:

businesses established in the UK selling e-cigarettes and / or refill containers to consumers in another EEA state (European Economic Area – the 28 EU Member States plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway)

businesses established in the EEA or third country selling to UK consumers. Business to business sales, that is sales not direct to consumers, do not need to be registered.

Registration is a legal requirement under the TPD. Without confirmation of registration businesses must not supply a relevant product to a consumer via a cross-border distance sale. The UK notification requirement applies to products supplied to UK consumers via a cross-border sale."

What this means, as far as I can make out, is that any business anywhere in the world that is selling e-cigarette products (which includes nicotine containing liquids) to consumers in the UK (but not B2B), needs to register and follow the UK rules.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

There are US companies in the list of registered companies.

Right...after reading that...how im reading it is...
The registration is only applies to business's established in the UK/ EEA or
Third country.
From what i can find out, the 'third country' relates to the EU, states that arnt fully part of the EEA (euro economic area) Places like san marino, monte carlo, vatican. Still use the euro single currency.
since the united states/china or anywhere else in the world arnt part of either the EEA or 'third countries' business registration and restrictions to sell to a UK consumber dont apply at all.
Therefore, there should be no issue importing 72mg into the UK from the US. The only issue, which is easily bypassed as we know from fasttech, is the import tax on anything expensive.
Like i say...the tpd is restrictions for the sale of eliquid/ecigarettes, how on earth can it possible apply to anyone in a different country on a different continent, under their own laws,
It restrictes the seller, not the consumer.