tartanthing
Postman
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Messages
- 311
Apologies in advance, this is a long post because I have transcribed it as it wont last on iplayer.
Those of us in Scotland will know Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's Politics correspondent. Friday's are his big debate radio prog. I present to you an amazing performance of pure unadulterated ignorance.
If you want to listen, BBC Radio Scotland - Brian Taylor's Big Debate, 09/05/2014 The question starts at 47:30
The panel guests are as follows:
Margaret Mitchell MSP
Conservative
no twitter found
Margaret Mitchell MSP
Christina McKelvie MSP
SNP ChristinaSNP
Christina McKelvie | MSP for Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse
Michael McMahon MSP
Labour
@M_McMahon_MSP
Michael McMahon MSP - Home
Jeremy Purvis, Baron Purvis of Tweed
Libdem
no twitter found
Jeremy Purvis
Robin McAlpine
Jimmy Reid foundation
Director
@ReidFoundation
http://reidfoundation.org/contact/
Question: 'Max Cruickshank, retired youth and drugs worker about 40 years experience. My concern is that ecigarettes are the latest scam that the tobacco industry have bought in to recruit their future smokers and there is absolutley no laws in place to protect anyone including children from this highly addictive drug. I think that is scandalous and I wrote to the Scottish Health Minister about it. At the moment he and ASH - the Action Against Smoking - are supporting it as a way of helping people to stop smoking. This is nonsense. It's a highly addictive drug with no law or controls on it'
Brian Taylor[Host]: 'Thanks for that. Max is making his point very clear. Jeremey Purvis what do you make of this one?'
Jeremy Purvis: 'Yeah. I think that rather than seeing it completeley polarised I think we need a proper set of research to find out wether or not these kind of technologies genuinley will help people kick the habit or whether or not they are simply a marketing for a new trend which is what your worried about sir and I think that erm before the legislation is passed there has to be properly informed legislation but i dont think we can wait too long, so therefore I do support there being proper research and that has to be both scientific and it also has to also be about actually for those people that are using ecigarettes as part of reducing their habit, how effective that is and how long term that is'
BT: 'Yes. Whether it gets people off cigarettes or whether it brings in [a] new generation. Christina McKelvie what do you make of this one?'
Christina McKelvie: 'Yeah. I have to absolutley agree and I agree with you sir as well its a very great concern and I've been following some of issues the BMA have bought forward because they are very very
concerned about this. One of the things that worries me is about how they are being targeted, erm targeted at young people to make smoking again as if it's something very acceptable. I have never been a smoker so its very difficult for me to understand when somebody says well it helps me to stop smoking because I..I don't understand that. For me I think I've been following the BMA and I need much, much, much more research and I think your absolutley right and Jeremy's absolutley right, we need to get the legislation right and we always accused of rushing legislation and getting it wrong but I think we need, we need more research but to make smoking much more acceptable again when we've actually marginalised it to something that is quite unacceptable really worries me and the targeting to young people would be a real concern as well.'
BT: '..just get a friend in the third row there'
Audience member: 'We all know what tobacco done to us over the years. What steps have been taken right now to make sure that this drug is not another tobacco drug wi another name round about it?'
BT: '...by a different means. Thank you for that. Margaret Mitchell what do you make of this one? I mean the discussion is at an early stage on this, but you know a our panelists say we are still looking for research?'
Margaret Mitchell: 'Well the only argument in favour of ecigarettes is if gets people who are addicted to nicotine and smoking off cigarettes but having said that then clearly from what the other panellists said there are potential unintended consequences and the research has to be carried out to see the long term effects.'
BT: 'Thanks for that. Michael McMahon what do make of this one? Are they more prehaps socially acceptable in that there arent great puffs of smoke [chunter] vapour?'
Michael McMahon: 'I think that might be one of the dangers actually that they are socially acceptable. I only realised recentley just how inoffensive they can be in a social environment. I have a family member who was using one of them [chunter] vaping. They were in my home and I didnt realise that she'd been using it for almost an hour. I just can't abide smoking, the smell of smoke, is just something I don't..so I wasnt aware she had been using this for a period of time so it is something that can take you by surprise. For me the key thing though is not the letter e at the start of it, its the word cigarette and given that we dont have the research yet, given that we don't have all of the information about the impact of these and whether they help people come off smoking or not I think we should apply the precautionary principle and just treat them as cigarettes. Therefore where they're banned, they should remain banned [interrupted]
BT: 'So you mean the ban in public places should extend from cigarettes to the ecigarette?'
MMcM: 'Yes' [interuppted]
CMcK(?): 'They're banned in Parliament now. They're banned in Parliament.Yeah'
BT: 'Is that right?'
CMcK(?): 'Yeah, Yeah. they took a decision to ban them in Parliament'
BT: 'Where they had been used previously? I wasnt aware of that. Lets go back to our question'
Max Cruikshank: 'Sorry before other people join in the debate I think your missing a point here. We're asking for evidence that it works. There is no evidence available at the moment that it works to quit smoking [BT chuntering again] and taking up the point at the beginning there about evidence that something works, for years as a drugs worker we've argued and found evidence that giving people pure heroin would help them to stop using heroin. None of the Governments have been prepared to go down that route. We know that works and they refuse to accept the evidence. Why are we wasting time at the moment trying to find evidence for this? The tobacco industry are laughing all the way to the bank while you guys sit on your hands. There is no protection, there is no protection of the quality of this, the quantity of this, who it can be sold to, where it can be sold, so we're allowing a new drug to come on the streets, to make a massive amount of profit and nobody is concerned enough other than it will get researched. That's lovely, the tobacco industry will make a fortune while you guys find the funds. [BT:' thanks for that Max'] It's absolutley outrageous.'
BT: 'Michael'
MMcM: 'That was the point I was making. I think until we have this research, we have this evidence, we should treat ecigarettes [BT:'Just call them cigarettes?']..call them cigarettes, treat them exactly the same way as cigarettes until we know better.'
BT: 'Thank you for that. Robin McAlpine what do you make of this one?' [audience applause]
Robin McAlpine: 'Big tobacco companies will never tire of getting rich out of killing us, they'll never tire. They would come round your hoose and shoot your weans if they could make a profit out of it. We've got to be realistic about this becuase if they were interested in getting you off smoking they would be working with the NHS to put it through as a prescription drug. There's usually a good teller whether a corporation is actually interested in your wellbeing and that's it's advertising. Is it heavily advertising, heavily marketing this product? Because if it is it's rarely for your good, it's almost always for theirs. And so no, I would have a much firmer crackdown on this. These big companies have a phenominal lobbying power. They twist politicians often and I'm not straight forward believing the politicians here. These corporations have enormous resources right around the globe, they've got far too much power. We've got to stop taking at face value that smoking is a hobby, it's not, we've got to stop taking at face value that one of these companies wants one of their customers to smoke one less cigarette because they don't' [applause]
BT: 'Jeremey, go on'
JP: 'I don't know if Robin is proposing that you just ban all tobacco products because...or whether or not it should just be done so by small businesses. If we're going to have legal products then there has to be the regulation around it and the reason why I say urgent, to address the point, but it also has to be evidence based because if they are going to be regulated in a tough way, or if there are going to be areas where actually they'll just be banned outright then they have to be categorised properly, they have to be through all the proper mechanisms to make sure it's robust because the area where I have got a bit of sympathy Robin is that actually there'll be counterfeits and they will be even worse products that'll put onto the streets and actually there'll be people that'll get around that, so we have to do this properly, you may be right to say politicians sit on their hands when there's a complicated issue but it has to be done urgently and it has to be really the focus of both for the Scottish Government and UK Government overall'
I hope you enjoyed that! didn't take long to find out that Max seems to be a bit of a swivel eyed loon thanks to the Google. Robin McAlpine is usually a lot more rational and better informed but really not his subject matter at all. As for Michael McMahon I would encourage you all to tweet him as many studies as you can find. It's pretty evident that Labour have a clear agenda against Vapers. I won't be voting for them at the Euro's and I wouldn't presume to tell you how to vote but if your a Vaper Labour are not your friends.
Those of us in Scotland will know Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's Politics correspondent. Friday's are his big debate radio prog. I present to you an amazing performance of pure unadulterated ignorance.
If you want to listen, BBC Radio Scotland - Brian Taylor's Big Debate, 09/05/2014 The question starts at 47:30
The panel guests are as follows:
Margaret Mitchell MSP
Conservative
no twitter found
Margaret Mitchell MSP
Christina McKelvie MSP
SNP ChristinaSNP
Christina McKelvie | MSP for Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse
Michael McMahon MSP
Labour
@M_McMahon_MSP
Michael McMahon MSP - Home
Jeremy Purvis, Baron Purvis of Tweed
Libdem
no twitter found
Jeremy Purvis
Robin McAlpine
Jimmy Reid foundation
Director
@ReidFoundation
http://reidfoundation.org/contact/
Question: 'Max Cruickshank, retired youth and drugs worker about 40 years experience. My concern is that ecigarettes are the latest scam that the tobacco industry have bought in to recruit their future smokers and there is absolutley no laws in place to protect anyone including children from this highly addictive drug. I think that is scandalous and I wrote to the Scottish Health Minister about it. At the moment he and ASH - the Action Against Smoking - are supporting it as a way of helping people to stop smoking. This is nonsense. It's a highly addictive drug with no law or controls on it'
Brian Taylor[Host]: 'Thanks for that. Max is making his point very clear. Jeremey Purvis what do you make of this one?'
Jeremy Purvis: 'Yeah. I think that rather than seeing it completeley polarised I think we need a proper set of research to find out wether or not these kind of technologies genuinley will help people kick the habit or whether or not they are simply a marketing for a new trend which is what your worried about sir and I think that erm before the legislation is passed there has to be properly informed legislation but i dont think we can wait too long, so therefore I do support there being proper research and that has to be both scientific and it also has to also be about actually for those people that are using ecigarettes as part of reducing their habit, how effective that is and how long term that is'
BT: 'Yes. Whether it gets people off cigarettes or whether it brings in [a] new generation. Christina McKelvie what do you make of this one?'
Christina McKelvie: 'Yeah. I have to absolutley agree and I agree with you sir as well its a very great concern and I've been following some of issues the BMA have bought forward because they are very very
concerned about this. One of the things that worries me is about how they are being targeted, erm targeted at young people to make smoking again as if it's something very acceptable. I have never been a smoker so its very difficult for me to understand when somebody says well it helps me to stop smoking because I..I don't understand that. For me I think I've been following the BMA and I need much, much, much more research and I think your absolutley right and Jeremy's absolutley right, we need to get the legislation right and we always accused of rushing legislation and getting it wrong but I think we need, we need more research but to make smoking much more acceptable again when we've actually marginalised it to something that is quite unacceptable really worries me and the targeting to young people would be a real concern as well.'
BT: '..just get a friend in the third row there'
Audience member: 'We all know what tobacco done to us over the years. What steps have been taken right now to make sure that this drug is not another tobacco drug wi another name round about it?'
BT: '...by a different means. Thank you for that. Margaret Mitchell what do you make of this one? I mean the discussion is at an early stage on this, but you know a our panelists say we are still looking for research?'
Margaret Mitchell: 'Well the only argument in favour of ecigarettes is if gets people who are addicted to nicotine and smoking off cigarettes but having said that then clearly from what the other panellists said there are potential unintended consequences and the research has to be carried out to see the long term effects.'
BT: 'Thanks for that. Michael McMahon what do make of this one? Are they more prehaps socially acceptable in that there arent great puffs of smoke [chunter] vapour?'
Michael McMahon: 'I think that might be one of the dangers actually that they are socially acceptable. I only realised recentley just how inoffensive they can be in a social environment. I have a family member who was using one of them [chunter] vaping. They were in my home and I didnt realise that she'd been using it for almost an hour. I just can't abide smoking, the smell of smoke, is just something I don't..so I wasnt aware she had been using this for a period of time so it is something that can take you by surprise. For me the key thing though is not the letter e at the start of it, its the word cigarette and given that we dont have the research yet, given that we don't have all of the information about the impact of these and whether they help people come off smoking or not I think we should apply the precautionary principle and just treat them as cigarettes. Therefore where they're banned, they should remain banned [interrupted]
BT: 'So you mean the ban in public places should extend from cigarettes to the ecigarette?'
MMcM: 'Yes' [interuppted]
CMcK(?): 'They're banned in Parliament now. They're banned in Parliament.Yeah'
BT: 'Is that right?'
CMcK(?): 'Yeah, Yeah. they took a decision to ban them in Parliament'
BT: 'Where they had been used previously? I wasnt aware of that. Lets go back to our question'
Max Cruikshank: 'Sorry before other people join in the debate I think your missing a point here. We're asking for evidence that it works. There is no evidence available at the moment that it works to quit smoking [BT chuntering again] and taking up the point at the beginning there about evidence that something works, for years as a drugs worker we've argued and found evidence that giving people pure heroin would help them to stop using heroin. None of the Governments have been prepared to go down that route. We know that works and they refuse to accept the evidence. Why are we wasting time at the moment trying to find evidence for this? The tobacco industry are laughing all the way to the bank while you guys sit on your hands. There is no protection, there is no protection of the quality of this, the quantity of this, who it can be sold to, where it can be sold, so we're allowing a new drug to come on the streets, to make a massive amount of profit and nobody is concerned enough other than it will get researched. That's lovely, the tobacco industry will make a fortune while you guys find the funds. [BT:' thanks for that Max'] It's absolutley outrageous.'
BT: 'Michael'
MMcM: 'That was the point I was making. I think until we have this research, we have this evidence, we should treat ecigarettes [BT:'Just call them cigarettes?']..call them cigarettes, treat them exactly the same way as cigarettes until we know better.'
BT: 'Thank you for that. Robin McAlpine what do you make of this one?' [audience applause]
Robin McAlpine: 'Big tobacco companies will never tire of getting rich out of killing us, they'll never tire. They would come round your hoose and shoot your weans if they could make a profit out of it. We've got to be realistic about this becuase if they were interested in getting you off smoking they would be working with the NHS to put it through as a prescription drug. There's usually a good teller whether a corporation is actually interested in your wellbeing and that's it's advertising. Is it heavily advertising, heavily marketing this product? Because if it is it's rarely for your good, it's almost always for theirs. And so no, I would have a much firmer crackdown on this. These big companies have a phenominal lobbying power. They twist politicians often and I'm not straight forward believing the politicians here. These corporations have enormous resources right around the globe, they've got far too much power. We've got to stop taking at face value that smoking is a hobby, it's not, we've got to stop taking at face value that one of these companies wants one of their customers to smoke one less cigarette because they don't' [applause]
BT: 'Jeremey, go on'
JP: 'I don't know if Robin is proposing that you just ban all tobacco products because...or whether or not it should just be done so by small businesses. If we're going to have legal products then there has to be the regulation around it and the reason why I say urgent, to address the point, but it also has to be evidence based because if they are going to be regulated in a tough way, or if there are going to be areas where actually they'll just be banned outright then they have to be categorised properly, they have to be through all the proper mechanisms to make sure it's robust because the area where I have got a bit of sympathy Robin is that actually there'll be counterfeits and they will be even worse products that'll put onto the streets and actually there'll be people that'll get around that, so we have to do this properly, you may be right to say politicians sit on their hands when there's a complicated issue but it has to be done urgently and it has to be really the focus of both for the Scottish Government and UK Government overall'
I hope you enjoyed that! didn't take long to find out that Max seems to be a bit of a swivel eyed loon thanks to the Google. Robin McAlpine is usually a lot more rational and better informed but really not his subject matter at all. As for Michael McMahon I would encourage you all to tweet him as many studies as you can find. It's pretty evident that Labour have a clear agenda against Vapers. I won't be voting for them at the Euro's and I wouldn't presume to tell you how to vote but if your a Vaper Labour are not your friends.
