My MP got back to me

[frank 133]

You want to kill me!? A bit harsh!

It was said in jest,[but now you come to mention it] joking mate.

 

[EthelKing]

I am doing my bit also by,informing smokers of the benefits to change to vaping.
Up to now I have converted five smokers,if I see a complete stranger having a fag,I usually say ,[have you tried one of these mate] no one has punched me out yet,a lot of smokers have never even heard of ecigs.
The ecigs from years ago were pathetic. that's why they never had such a big following,

You've hit the nail on the head fairly and squarely mate. Keep on recommending and the market will grow and grow as more and more people see how effective vaping is. If it keeps on in the same fashion as it has been in the two years since I started with my SkyCig, by the time 2016 turns up and then another two years for everyone to become compliant, it will be like pissing in the wind for the powers that be, who I think are just expecting everyone to roll over and start using approved gear - bless them! Cameron wants UK-China partnerships. He'll be delighted when the import of toys, machine parts and shampoo starts going through the roof in 2018!

Whilst part of me says PANIC, more of me says plan for the worst without going overboard and see what happens. People are resourceful and nicotine will be the main issue, but there will be clever ways around problems - there always is.

 

[anthonyb]

You've hit the nail on the head fairly and squarely mate. Keep on recommending and the market will grow and grow as more and more people see how effective vaping is.

I don't know if this is a little off topic. But just been going through me FB messages, after another round of sharing. And I get the distinct impression that there is a lot of e-cig users out there, on both sides of the pond, that don't know what's going on.
I've had messages from both sides, stating, "that's what they are trying to do here" and "I didn't know that, yes i'll sign"
I seem to be spending a lot of time forwarding info. to them. Which I don't mind doing as it swells the ranks. And benefits all.
But it ain't getting me heads recoiled, is it.
I seem to be getting a titter fan base as well. Been on it less than a week, and got 31 followers already. What ever that means.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[EthelKing]

Ha ha! I've got followers on Twitter and have absolutely no idea who they are, how they decided I was worth following, or whether I am actually using twitter properly when I do limp along in the twitter bombings!

Going back to your other point, I have noticed that many are unaware of what is literally around the corner, and that's why I think spreading the word of vaping and its benefits is as important as writing to people who are generally going to do what they are told to do by their bosses or whips. If the market is HUGE it will make heavy regulation and law enforcement very difficult, if not impossible. As the market expands, there will be an expansion in bricks and mortar premises, and existing suppliers will also expand and basically being forced to fold because of legislation will be very difficult for any government to justify, especially if the economy continues to travel along on the bones of its arse...

 

[steffijade]

Ha, no I am not Chris Choi, although I am trolling you.

No shit.

Right back at ya.

Ok, it is semantics, to an extent. But to argue something is not medicinal is purely defined by the semantics. All definitions by their very nature ARE.

I know the good points of vaping. I have read them and looked through a great deal of information. I agree with your final conclusion. I have merely stated that it is perfectly reasonable for others to disagree with us and consider it a medicine. This added to the fact that it does, on a lot of levels, look to be a medicine means you have to be able to argue why it is not.



This is not strictly speaking true. In my very first post I posted the definition of medicine as

a drug or other preparation for the treatment or prevention of disease.

I insisted from the very start that it must contain a drug. I have not recently changed my argument, and have remained consistent all the way through. Your extreme examples don't bother me, I just don't agree with them for the reasons I stated.

Is it pedantic to argue points using the recognised dictionary definition, quoted in my very first post as a basis, and using comparable ideas to back it up? I don't think so.

As you've admitted that you're just trolling, it's pretty much a moot point.

How depressing is that thought! Are you seriously saying they can't be reasoned with and persuaded? Then why bother fighting this then? Lets just stockpile now and forget about the whole fight.

As already stated, I hope for a favourable outcome, but plan for a less favourable one.

Whilst I still believe that ultimately, 'they' will do what they want to do regardless, my point about 'them' not having the moral high ground anymore is an important one to consider. After the recent vote on the TPD, it was brought home to 'them' that they can no longer just force stuff through without it being challenged and I'm not suggesting that 'they' shouldn't be challenged.. I'm just looking at the bigger picture and on a longer time scale than you apparently are.

I'm happy to see all the lobbying currently being done, not because I think it will deter 'them' if they're determined enough, but because if they can be delayed as long as possible, I think it can only help the cause of vapers in the long run. The more they are delayed, the more people are likely to switch to vaping and the bigger our collective 'voice' will be. More time will also allow for more evidence and scientific studies to be done. Most importantly, more time will allow the word to be spread to current/potential vapers about the de facto ban and allow them to prepare themselves to weather the storm. Being able to show 'them' the middle digit and continue vaping on our own terms, not theirs, is the best way to 'win' in the long run.

I agree with this next statement in it's entirety:



And the reason I am now mounting this campaign of argument is to show how, what they say, can be defended. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE RIGHT. I AM NOT SAYING I AM RIGHT. I am saying that the argument can be made, can you realistically counter it? That interim period, if it comes to that, will be our opportunity to mount a legal challenge and whatnot. I worry that we will choose to say that vaping cannot be classified as a medicine, and I think this will lead to us losing the argument; because it can be defined that way.



I entirely agree with you again. I would not try to justify them. They are unjustifiable. Why would I want to? They are based on defending the profits and vested interest of rich companies and the tax income of nation states. It is not defensible and the fight against it must continue. The MOST worrying thing is the proposal to shut down sites like this one. That concerns me more than ANY of the other regulation. That is scary as hell, it opens the floodgates to so many other avenues of freedom being closed.

I have not given a personal opinion on vaping in all of this. I do not think it should have medical regulations placed on it. I do not think it is dangerous. I do not see the need for extra regulation in this area at all. I am a vaper. I do enjoy it. I do not want to be stopped.

Ok, you had your troll and I've trolled you back but if we can actually put that to one side and be serious :

The reason why vaping shouldn't be classified as a medicine is because it isn't generally used or generally marketed as a medicine. Most of the vapers I know are former smokers who have switched to vaping and have little or no desire to quit vaping too.. they're happy enough to continue using what is generally perceived to be the safer alternative.

'Traditional' NRT is not generally recommended for the continuous replacement, but to be used for a relatively short amount of time in order to wean the person off nicotine entirely (hence the 'T' in NRT). Ironically, this is the single biggest reason why traditional NRT is so ineffective in the long term and so many people who use it, end up 'relapsing'.

As well as missing the physical sensations of smoking, a lot of people who attempt to quit also miss the effects nicotine has on them and despite being decidedly moreish, nicotine in the dosage ranges used by vapers has very little significant long term impact on health. The last time I checked, nicotine dependency wasn't classified as a disease either.

'They' want to perceive vaping as being a quit aid and thus, another form of NRT, but used in the way that the majority of vapers that I know use it, it's a tool for tobacco harm reduction which is an entirely different thing. 'They' also want to believe that all vapers want to quit nicotine, which isn't the case.

Most smokers who are motivated enough to try using traditional NRT, have a desire to cease smoking AND nicotine use. NRT is marketed and intended to be used for this purpose, which is why it's probably justifiable to label it as medicine... the people who use it are actively seeking a 'cure'.

Most of the smokers who switch to vaping (apparently) aren't looking for a cure or even the prevention of nicotine dependency, they're merely looking to minimise the potential for harm that is associated with tobacco smoking.

The most valid argument I can offer against classifying vaping as a medicine is that it could potentially cause the exact opposite of your definition of medicine and here's why :

I got my first e-cig shortly after the smoking ban was introduced. Initially, I wasn't looking to quit smoking, I wasn't even looking for a method of tobacco harm reduction, I just didn't want to be forced to stand outside freezing my tits off in the winter if I went to the pub. Without even really meaning to, my smoking dropped off rapidly and it wasn't long before I was a full time vaper and didn't smoke any tobacco at all.

Now this might sound like it was easy, but it wasn't... if anything, it was a pain in the arse. I managed to go 7 months without having a fag (which up until that point was the longest period of abstainance I'd had since I started smoking), before I finally got fed up with batteries that only lasted an hour or 2, low wattages producing 'weak' vapour and getting gobfuls of unatomised juice or dry hits because the wadding was too wet/dry and ended up going back to tobacco smoking.

Fast forward a few years and due to life being a bit of a barstard at that point, my smoking had gone up from between 40-60 fags a day to at least 60 a day and it was having a noticeable impact on my health. I tried a few more unsuccessful bouts of 'smoking cessation' before considering trying an e-cig again. I'd managed to stay of the fags for 7 months the first time.. perhaps if I could manage similar again, it might give my body a bit of breathing space? After digging my old kit out of a drawer, I discovered that that batteries were about knackered (2 of them were dead and the other 2 would only hold a charge that lasted me about 20 mins). So I went online to order some new ones.

Imagine my suprise when I saw that there had been a few developments since I'd bought my first kit. There were batteries that held 5 times as much charge and even a new fangled tank system... hmmm.. could these solve the issues that had eventually driven me back to smoking? Only one way to find out. I ordered some new gear and when what I eventually learned was a rebranded ego tank kit turned up, I had another go at vaping.

It was by no means perfect.. it had it's flaws, but I was soon a full time vaper and off the fags again. That was a few years ago now and since then, I've tried/owned a plethora of different devices, atties, cartos, clearos, tanks, rebuilables and sampled a wide range of liquids and if I compare the gear that I use now to that first vaping kit, the difference is like chalk and cheese. Vaping has come a long way in the last few years and the most pleasing aspect of this is that it was all driven by the vapers themselves. It wasn't big corporations driving the development, it was vapers 'in sheds' experimenting that brought us VV, carto tanks, box mods and rebuildables and ultimately laid the foundations for the wonderfully effective equipment we have at our disposal these days.

The proposed medical regulations would 'outlaw' all these developments and drive vaping back, not just to the level of those first generation e-cigs, but to an even lower level. There is no way that I could sustainably use any such devices and if they were my only choice, I'd end up going back to smoking... I know this because it's already happened to me once before.

How can something be classed as 'medicine' if it isn't effective, doesn't cure or prevent disease, but actually forces people to go back to the very same practices it's supposed to be preventing or curing in the first place?

Simple answer is that it can't.

Does that suffice or would you like to return to the trolling?

 

[Chegs]

How can something be classed as 'medicine' if it isn't effective, doesn't cure or prevent disease, but actually forces people to go back to the very same practices it's supposed to be preventing or curing in the first place?

Simple answer is that it can't.

Touché I'm very much in agreement with this statement


& SuperChris...use of the word Trolling can lead to people(me)deciding to swear/rant/generally get abusive,so I'll apologise now in advance.

 

[Skitty]

My logic is fairly simple - maybe overly simplistic - and that is that if smoking addiction is something that needs to be treated with vaping, same as heroin addiction gets treated with methadone, then cigarettes need to be handled appropriately as a 'harm'. The second cigarettes gets classified as a harmful drug - like heroin - I'll back vaping being classified as medicinal and prescription only and such; as long as smoking is legal and not restricted beyond over-18s, there is no reason to restrict the 'treatment' to a higher degree.

Oh, and if course if we're being 'treated' with vaping for our addiction 'disease' we'd be getting the same benefits as junkies and addicts, right?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[Daffs]

I had a further response from George Lyon MEP ( Lib Dem) in a nut shell he fully supports ecigs and see's the restrictions proposed as non sensical. And see's no sense in banning refillables as it allows users to mix and match, he fears a ban will only push vapers back to tobacco and intends to keep fighting our corner!.