Recommend me some liquids!

[JohnNada]

These companies have some clever people behind the scenes. I'm sure they'll come up with something should the government do something stupid.

I'll be keeping my fingers and toes crossed this is the case!

Supergood especially, I really hope they've got a contingency plan should shortfill flavours be banned. No level of DIY/home brew expertise could ever recreate their Butter ranger of flavours I doubt (unless maybe @SessionDrummer has some suggestions?).

 

[Reti]

I'll be keeping my fingers and toes crossed this is the case!

Supergood especially, I really hope they've got a contingency plan should shortfill flavours be banned. No level of DIY/home brew expertise could ever recreate their Butter ranger of flavours I doubt (unless maybe @SessionDrummer has some suggestions?).

You're really bigging up that Butter liquid! I hope they're as good as you say as I'll be ordering some XD

At the end of the day, even if the worst was to happen you would still be able to order them online from other countries. Hell, if you can order hitmen, weapons and drugs online then you'll be able to order flavoured eliquids for sure! Let's not worry too much about it. We'll still be able to get flavoured liquids, it just might not be as easy or cheap as it is now that's all.

 

[MarylinC37]

It's just if it was true then my juice wouldn't have steeped. Additionally, from what I've read on the science of steeping and exactly how it works and what is happening chemically, nicotine doesn't come into that mix and isn't responsible for the steeping. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, it's just there's a lot of info out there that conflicts with the opinion that nicotine is needed for steeping. Personally, I don't believe it is needed for steeping. If someone can show me some scientific evidence that shows nicotine is an integral part of flavour development I will of course reevaluate that opinion. Though my experience with the Zeus Juice improving ten fold without nicotine will be hard to explain.
I'm not saying at all that eliquid doesn't steep with nicotine. I'm just saying I don't believe that a liquid will not steep without nicotine.

And yes, a rebrand might well need to be done. If a single flavour concentrate can be used for food I see no reason why pre-mixed ones couldn't.
These companies have some clever people behind the scenes. I'm sure they'll come up with something should the government do something stupid.

I'm not expert enough to say for sure what the right answer is about steeping but you're absolutely right to question things and not just take peoples word for it if you're in doubt. It wouldn't be the first time I've questioned expert opinions in the past.

The concentrates thing is really about business classifications. Agencies like HMRC and Companies House classify businesses according to what area they trade in - finance, travel, retail, etc. Any Company dealing in vape specific products would have to comply with any new law directed at vaping including pre-mixed juices if they are considered to be a vape specific product.

Once the the proposals for the new law are announced, doubtless the legal eagles from the vape industry will be pouring all over them to decide on what changes need to be made as well as any workarounds they can legally get away with.

 

[JohnNada]

You're really bigging up that Butter liquid! I hope they're as good as you say as I'll be ordering some XD

At the end of the day, even if the worst was to happen you would still be able to order them online from other countries. Hell, if you can order hitmen, weapons and drugs online then you'll be able to order flavoured eliquids for sure! Let's not worry too much about it. We'll still be able to get flavoured liquids, it just might not be as easy or cheap as it is now that's all.

It is that good.. in my opinion humble anyway!

They're a UK company so not sure if they sell abroad. Plus I want it at Legion of Vapers/Vaping101 prices which are cheaper than buying direct from Supergood themselves.

Not sure I'd want to buy darkweb eliquid either, I dread to think what would be in it!

 

[nwhornet]

A couple of points to ponder
1. fruit/mint flavoured ejuice doesn't require "steeping". Flavour will improve when vigouresly shaken to ensure all the components are mixed and then left for a few hours to combine (nic or no nic).
2. custard/dessert ejuice benefits from having nic added, shaken thoroughly and again left for asap to blend. Very few custards, for example, are good fresh with or without nic.
3. fresh nic juice, regardless of pg/vg ratio, should be clear. If it's discolouring it's either old stock or over exposed to air. A sniff/tongue test will tell you how far it's gone. A peppery smell/taste means it's past it's best.

This is from experience and vaping self made, pre mixed and shortfills.

As for good brands the ones already mentioned are among the best and if you want complex flavour profiles I'll throw in Legiox Vape (@Chris K ). The base custard, Britannia, is the closest to a vape and shake I've ever tried (and I've tried too many) but for me benefits from a spell in the dark cupboard after nic is added.

 

[ZT]

Hmm. I just looked this up and there are several places that say the nicotine isn't required for steeping.
It doesn't make any sense to me that nicotine is needed in order for flavourings to come out. Nicotine changes colour when it comes into contact with oxygen or light. That and the maillard reaction between amino acids and sugars is responsible for the colour change. But nicotine isn't needed for a maillard reaction. Just heat, moisture and time. Nicotine is usually a very light yellow/orange (specifically nic-b salts) and that intensifies when it's been exposed to light and oxygen and can even look brown.
Nicotine does degrade at certain temps. At 79c you will lose up to 10% of it. at 65c you'll lose up to 8% of it. That's not much and I'm fine with that.
There are plenty of vapers who don't use nicotine, such as many Australian vapers and they still steep their liquids.
Additionally, my Zeus Juice. I forgot to add nicotine to it until I realised I was vaping it (after a few weeks when it got nice) and still craved nicotine lol. That one most definitely steeped. At first it wasn't nice. I couldn't taste the advertised flavours and it was weak. Very weak. I did the hot water thing and left it out and then put it away for 2 weeks just thinking it was crap. I then thought I'd try it again and it was ten times better, so that one steeped without nicotine.
I know I'm not very experienced etc but I don't believe nicotine is needed to steep an eliquid and there are various sites out there that concur.
This is one of the companies that explains that nicotine isn't needed for steeping. It's also one of the ones (among many) that gives the warm bath method as a way for steeping.
Another one that says nicotine isn't needed for steeping & lists the warm bath method.

I think the important thing though is what works for you. The warm bath method which is listed as a steeping method on several vaping/liquid sites works for me. It's just that some flavours I got I don't like and I need to find some that I do like. I've been given plenty of recommendations to try here so I'll get some ordered.

Ive been an eliquid mixologist working on a professional level for over a decade.

Trust me - it needs nic
And water bath steeping will just get your label wet

nic and time is all it needs, there are no shortcuts.
I have seen, tested and experienced this change thousands upon thousands of times.

your choice tho

carry on what you are doing

neither of those companies are eliquid production companies by the way -

vaporesso make hardware and ukecig store sell other peoples juice.

We have done all this experimentation - we have tested it and tested it - and observed lots of different methodologies and time and nic are the only constants.

also quite simply we can have a bottle of powwow sauce on a shelf for six months and without nic it tastes like its just been mixed - add the nic and the changes start.

im not being argumentative - im not giving you opinions - im giving you verifiable fact.

when someone buys a shortfill from us - they put a nic shot in and often say “really needs a week that does!”

we have rarely just made that shortfill - we do not make to order, it will have been on a shelf most likely.

addendum : as @nwhornet said above - fruits rarely if ever need steeping

desserts and tobaccos with a few exceptions absolutely do.’
Especially custards

 

[ZT]

Further info

in tests done on this subject many years ago now we at my company discovered that the flavour change occurred regardless of wether the e-liquid was in warm water or not.

my assumption is because of the reaction observed when in warm water people have assumed it speeds up the process - it doesn't but it does degrade the nic if it to hot

and makes your labels run and slide off the bottle. Which honestly is the most useful thing about it if you reuse bottles at home!

im fairly certain the colour change is not related to the flavour change (because some flavours dont change much) but it is a good indication of what stage the flavour change is at.
Especially if you know what your juice looks like when steeped. Its an indicator as a by product really

 

[MrsAshy]

Very helpful posts
So, how long do you really recommend to steep custards?

 

[nwhornet]

Very helpful posts
So, how long do you really recommend to steep custards?

Personally at least a couple of weeks, Do a finger lick test every few days to determine whether it's to your taste or not. There's no golden rule, it's all personal taste. I did find a bottle of Welsh Custard that is at least 3 yrs old and it still tastes fine, treacle colour and a coil killer but mighty fine lol .

 

[MrsAshy]

Personally at least a couple of weeks, Do a finger lick test every few days to determine whether it's to your taste or not. There's no golden rule, it's all personal taste. I did find a bottle of Welsh Custard that is at least 3 yrs old and it still tastes fine, treacle colour and a coil killer but mighty fine lol .

3 years
Cheers Hornet, that really helps me out