UK Gov To Ban Disposables?

[Rickster]

 

[Simon G]

Ive always preferred chewing cardboard to meat substitutes

It's not got any better.... back when I was a teenage veggie punk I used to quite enjoy a Wimpy spicy bean burger, that new thing at Muck Donalds is revolting. My daughter had a 'monopoly' free thing for one, so I thought I'd try it. It's wasn't cardboardy though... I would describe it as 'sludgy' .. really weird texture, like sloppy meat.

 

[hack400]

Cigarette smoking is on a downward trajectory, which is reducing the potential customers for the "cessation" market. Nicotine additction is the obvious market growth potential, and making that as easily available as possible is the best way to grow youur product base. Business...

 

[zouzounaki]

Cigarette smoking is on a downward trajectory, which is reducing the potential customers for the "cessation" market. Nicotine additction is the obvious market growth potential, and making that as easily available as possible is the best way to grow youur product base. Business...

this is a good point. and maybe explains the apparently reckless behaviour of the industry. they know it’s not a sustainable long term market as it stands so will take high risks/rip the arse out of it either try to create one, or trying cream as much profit while they still can.

 

[Toby iVapour]

.. it’s not a sustainable long term market...

You may be right (or maybe diminishing somewhat).. but there will always be a demand for nicotine, and as you can use it in much reduced harm these days, I would say some kind of market for it will always be there...

But as there is a concerted attempt to marginalise nicotine users to the point of trying to make them social pariahs, if this becomes sucessful, there will be a massive social pressure for people not to use nicotine (which would affect the market of course).

 

[Toby iVapour]

A Vapid Solution:
Why banning disposable e-cigarettes would be a failure of law-enforcement
https://iea.org.uk/publications/a-v...a-failure-of-law-enforcement/#Underage_vaping
A few interesting points...

Although 20.5% of 11-17 year olds report having ever used an e-cigarette, most of them (11.6%) have only done so once or twice [and only 3.7% of them use an e-cigarette more than once a week]. Most e-cigarette use among this age group is therefore experimental and four out of five 11–17-year-olds have never used an e-cigarette at all. E-cigarette use has increased among the under-18s in recent years, as it has among adults, but the scale of youth vaping should not be exaggerated. Twice as many 11–15-year-olds drink alcohol regularly than vape regularly, but no one seriously suggests banning the types of alcohol that are most popular with teenagers.

Despite concerns about a ‘gateway effect’ from vaping to smoking, regular cigarette use has virtually disappeared among school children since e-cigarettes became mainstream products. The proportion of regular smokers aged between 11 and 15 has dropped from 4% to just 1% since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that many of the teenagers who are currently vaping would otherwise be smoking.

 

[Toby iVapour]

I think Dr McKean is attacking the wrong thing. The statement that smoking is 95% less harmful than cigarrettes is the result of lots of research evidence which showed that to be true.

The boom in teenage vaping is not down to that statement at all.

It certainly isn't, I just came across this graph -

There is no evidence that the rise in youth vaping in the last three years has been due to teenagers knowing that vaping is at least 95% safer than smoking. On the contrary, like every other age group, teenagers have become more and more ignorant about the risks thanks to unscrupulous journalists and dishonest academics. Only a third of 11-17 year olds understand that vaping is less dangerous than smoking at all, let alone at least 95% less dangerous. Public understanding is at an all time low.

https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/09/first-tell-truth.html

McKean's flawed opinion is also covered here -
https://link.news.inews.co.uk/view/62d85774e9e76a8265084601jka6v.125/a1cf8bd4

The fact that a prominent doctor, head of policy at a major medical organisation, seems to be arguing that people should become even less informed - that medical organisations should dilute the truth of their message that vaping is relatively safe - seems quite perverse. A noble lie, after all, is still a lie.

 

[zouzounaki]

It certainly isn't, I just came across this graph -

https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/09/first-tell-truth.html

McKean's flawed opinion is also covered here -
https://link.news.inews.co.uk/view/62d85774e9e76a8265084601jka6v.125/a1cf8bd4

i’m not sure that hypothesis adds up. the increase in the black line coincides with the propaganda that’s been about since the disposable boom. i’m also not sure that youngsters are really bothered about health concerns so much, mind.

i also think what mckean is saying is being misinterpreted a bit. these folk whose articles you like to post seem to be reading some sort of detail into it that wasn’t there, as far as i can see.

 

[Toby iVapour]

i’m not sure that hypothesis adds up. the increase in the black line coincides with the propaganda that’s been about since the disposable boom. i’m also not sure that youngsters are really bothered about health concerns so much, mind.

Yes, I agree to last 2 sentences. But I think that adds to the hypothesis that kids aren't taking any notice of the tagline that vaping is at least 95% less harmful than smoking.
i.e. from the graph, the belief (and increase) in the negative propaganda seems to be more dominant than the 95% safer belief, and the kids aren't really that bothered by the negative propaganda anyway, hence the increase in vaping rates.

i also think what mckean is saying is being misinterpreted a bit. these folk whose articles you like to post seem to be reading some sort of detail into it that wasn’t there, as far as i can see.

I'm not sure what detail you mean, but I don't think he is being misinterpreted at all...
He is going above and beyond negative propaganda in respect that the positive (95% safer) should be cancelled or rewritten (in what way I've no idea how?) for the sake of the kids...

So, not only does what he is saying appear to not be true (safer tagline increasing kids' vaping), but he also appears to be suggesting that we lie about it instead... (?)

 

[Simon G]

Kids are vaping because it's cheaper than smoking, it tastes better than smoking and it's the thing to do at the moment.... before it was eating washing powder tablets, or snorting alcohol shots...

.... when I was a kid it was aerosols.

They aren't worried about their own health from vaping.... we didn't worry about sniffing aerosols until a few people died, nobody is going to die from vaping nicotine... so they won't care.

That's not the issue though is it?