Blossom
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I think it's windows or something, won't let me write in paragraphs either. If I'm going to write a long post, I write it in word and then copy and paste it into here!
UK Vendors, lack of choice?
- Thread starter Reevo
- Start date
I think it's windows or something, won't let me write in paragraphs either. If I'm going to write a long post, I write it in word and then copy and paste it into here!
zigackly
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I'm not promising this will work, but try going to Settings->General Settings on the forum and then changing User Editor Interface to Basic Editor.
ScottChensoda
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Not a problem Anthony. My apologies for doubting you. Blame KMS, it's all her fault!!
Colonelboom
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Exactly what others have posted really, money and pricing on certain products make a huge issue especially when you see more and more "xx in at fasttech" threads pop up as it shows that a lot of people will buy overseas for lower prices than a UK vendor that is paying similar prices for wholesale. Everyone selling legitimately in the Uk has to factor in high shipping costs, import duty/VAT and of course the cost of replacing inevitable DOA's and failures and while I personally want to take things in one direction eventually the things that sell well are a select bunch of products.
Some of us are only very small and startup businesses do not have the cashflow that is often needed to buy big bulk orders in products in order to keep prices reasonable and have a wide range. For instance, I have currently around 300 bottles of e-liquid on the shelf, another 250 arriving next week and then another of the same amount the week after from a different supplier to add choice - this trend will continue for a few weeks while I figure out what is selling, what is not and adjust accordingly. 900 bottles might sound a lot but in reality it is still only offering a handful of flavours in a few strengths and nowhere near the intended level I hope to offer eventually.
When you look at certain suppliers overseas the minimum order quantity on trivial items can be quite high, otherwise you get stuck on a sample price which is the same near as damnit as retail - no good to a genuine vendor who still needs a return, back to the cashflow and getting stuck with dead/worthless stock again.
Some of us are only very small and startup businesses do not have the cashflow that is often needed to buy big bulk orders in products in order to keep prices reasonable and have a wide range. For instance, I have currently around 300 bottles of e-liquid on the shelf, another 250 arriving next week and then another of the same amount the week after from a different supplier to add choice - this trend will continue for a few weeks while I figure out what is selling, what is not and adjust accordingly. 900 bottles might sound a lot but in reality it is still only offering a handful of flavours in a few strengths and nowhere near the intended level I hope to offer eventually.
When you look at certain suppliers overseas the minimum order quantity on trivial items can be quite high, otherwise you get stuck on a sample price which is the same near as damnit as retail - no good to a genuine vendor who still needs a return, back to the cashflow and getting stuck with dead/worthless stock again.
Fleabag
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On the paragraph issue - just download Google Chrome or other browser. The problem is with Internet Explorer 10.
For the vendors, I can't blame folk for concentrating on the decent beginner Ego sets (I've been on tank systems since April and I'm still happy with Ego, though I'm sure I'll upgrade when I figure out what's right for me).
New starters don't want to invest too much in case they don't stick it out, so they aren't going to spend hundreds on their first e-cig, so a vendor is securing a steady business stocking Egos, a range of tanks, accessories and a good range of juice (which we've already established involves a large stock to provide a range of flavours and strengths). Though there's clearly a market in the high-end stuff, it is a small market compared with the amount of vapers.
I admit, most of my recent purchases have been from Fasttech, because of price and choice. I would be willing to spend a little more to support small vendors and speed up delivery, but it's hard for them to offer prices that can compete with Fasttech's wholesale prices and still make the profits they need to remain viable.
If I went into it, I would probably do the same and focus on the Egos, Kangers etc and try to provide as wide a range of juices as I could (I decided to test 4 bottles of Fasttech's "Dekang" and they were unbranded and not as nice as my own DIY). If price is reasonable, a lot of the bread & butter of an e-store must be in the consumables.
What's probably missing from the market is variation in PG/VG ratios - of course I understand why - if you offer one flavour in 3 strengths and 4 PG/VG mixes, you need a LOT of bottles to offer a wide range of flavours. However, it's interesting how many people on this site, like me, DIY at 50/50 - I've never seen pre-mixes at that ratio.
For the vendors, I can't blame folk for concentrating on the decent beginner Ego sets (I've been on tank systems since April and I'm still happy with Ego, though I'm sure I'll upgrade when I figure out what's right for me).
New starters don't want to invest too much in case they don't stick it out, so they aren't going to spend hundreds on their first e-cig, so a vendor is securing a steady business stocking Egos, a range of tanks, accessories and a good range of juice (which we've already established involves a large stock to provide a range of flavours and strengths). Though there's clearly a market in the high-end stuff, it is a small market compared with the amount of vapers.
I admit, most of my recent purchases have been from Fasttech, because of price and choice. I would be willing to spend a little more to support small vendors and speed up delivery, but it's hard for them to offer prices that can compete with Fasttech's wholesale prices and still make the profits they need to remain viable.
If I went into it, I would probably do the same and focus on the Egos, Kangers etc and try to provide as wide a range of juices as I could (I decided to test 4 bottles of Fasttech's "Dekang" and they were unbranded and not as nice as my own DIY). If price is reasonable, a lot of the bread & butter of an e-store must be in the consumables.
What's probably missing from the market is variation in PG/VG ratios - of course I understand why - if you offer one flavour in 3 strengths and 4 PG/VG mixes, you need a LOT of bottles to offer a wide range of flavours. However, it's interesting how many people on this site, like me, DIY at 50/50 - I've never seen pre-mixes at that ratio.
zigackly
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It's been interesting to read things from a vendor perspective, and I wish you all the best in your ventures. Seems there is a lot of competition, so I do understand why people specialise. Personally I am on a very limited budget so I have to try to minimise postage costs, otherwise I would love to buy a little from each of you. I do use a very cheap "one stop shop" who don't seem to be one of the larger vendors mentioned in here by the way. No idea how they do it at the prices they do. Otherwise if they don't have what I want, I have to shop around for the cheapest options.
Reevo
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WOW, Thankyou all for your replies, especially the Vendors! Ok, so its obviously cashflow that seems to be the main reason which I totally understand (Ive worked in retail at all levels from shop floor to senior management) especially in the current climate.
I used drip tips as an example I don't have a "Drip tip fetish" I promise lol, but it did show the level of stock from one vendor, to get that level of stock I know would take a serious investment but the choice would be there as add on sales while browsing the site, as would batteries, chargers, wick, mesh, wire, steel rope, cartos, vape stands, wire cutters, blow torches, these are bread & butter lines which wouldn't have a shelf life or be subject to the latest "In thing"?
It would be great to get that from one supplier, then if they do stock (in smaller stock quantities) the latest tank, mod etc PLUS quality juices then they would get my business regular even if they were slightly more expensive than others, including China! BUT again its down to cashflow.
I know there are ALOT of shitty little websites out there selling ego starter kits at mega prices which annoy the shit out of me but they are getting people off the cigs and hopefully then getting them onto forums like this where they can learn the "Jedi ways" lol. I don't know what percentage the new user market share is, but it must be huge? So that's the hook for vendors, but from a new user point of view, if they don't do forums, their only source of info is the vendors and if the vendors don't do a larger range of products, how will the new user progress AND spend more money on better quality/pricier products, which it turn is better for the vendors and the growing community?
Just my rambling thoughts, after vaping for nearly 2 years, im passionate about vaping, the community and its future. Martin.
I used drip tips as an example I don't have a "Drip tip fetish" I promise lol, but it did show the level of stock from one vendor, to get that level of stock I know would take a serious investment but the choice would be there as add on sales while browsing the site, as would batteries, chargers, wick, mesh, wire, steel rope, cartos, vape stands, wire cutters, blow torches, these are bread & butter lines which wouldn't have a shelf life or be subject to the latest "In thing"?
It would be great to get that from one supplier, then if they do stock (in smaller stock quantities) the latest tank, mod etc PLUS quality juices then they would get my business regular even if they were slightly more expensive than others, including China! BUT again its down to cashflow.
I know there are ALOT of shitty little websites out there selling ego starter kits at mega prices which annoy the shit out of me but they are getting people off the cigs and hopefully then getting them onto forums like this where they can learn the "Jedi ways" lol. I don't know what percentage the new user market share is, but it must be huge? So that's the hook for vendors, but from a new user point of view, if they don't do forums, their only source of info is the vendors and if the vendors don't do a larger range of products, how will the new user progress AND spend more money on better quality/pricier products, which it turn is better for the vendors and the growing community?
Just my rambling thoughts, after vaping for nearly 2 years, im passionate about vaping, the community and its future. Martin.
Colonelboom
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I think all of us who sell are looking at the market through similar eyes. I am, like the others mentioning before, entirely self funded and despite looking for financial input through banks originally the 2016 deadline seems to have the lenders in a bit of a quandry as to the legitimacy of the industry over a long enough term to be a 'safe' loan - asking for what I consider to be unreasonable guarantees and security. Hence i decided instead to dip into my own pocket and other businesses and do it my way, with limited initial startup cash but entirely my risk.
No doubt, over time vendors that are the same will grow if they have support from customers and deliver products in the way a customer expects, I myself am a customer of other vendors on here because when I need things personally I do not stock and I know they will deliver to my satisfaction.
I also understand the quandry of buying from vendors versus the like of fasttech - in this climate people do not have money spare and quite often the lure of something at wholesale price but with a delay in delivery is attractive. Where we try from here on in though is to all work together where possible to promote vaping to a wider audience and with it comes those that buy UK kit instead and we grow and evolve how we want.
The next issue is that of regulation, although we know it shouldn't happen or perhaps may not at all, none of us want to secure houses against big loans or even have tens of thousands of items in stock when theoretically the mainstream nature of the business could fold away after a certain date and become incredibly specialised - how many shops selling JUST bongs and smoking paraphernalia do well purely because the main component behind all these items is illegal?
Again, as has been mentioned already. There are products that are only available through wholesale distributors who 'cherry pick' who they want to let sell their goods which is just guff really. It limits the choice available and stifles the industry unnecessarily IMO.
I think anyone who is trying to carve a good reputation out in this industry deserves a pat on the back when right now, at this time, it is actually a big risk. It may pay off - on a personal level I really hope so - but for me, i love vaping, I love the fact I have changed the minds of loads of friends and family members to get away from smoke and I hope we get the opportunity to continue to do so and make a living as we go.
No doubt, over time vendors that are the same will grow if they have support from customers and deliver products in the way a customer expects, I myself am a customer of other vendors on here because when I need things personally I do not stock and I know they will deliver to my satisfaction.
I also understand the quandry of buying from vendors versus the like of fasttech - in this climate people do not have money spare and quite often the lure of something at wholesale price but with a delay in delivery is attractive. Where we try from here on in though is to all work together where possible to promote vaping to a wider audience and with it comes those that buy UK kit instead and we grow and evolve how we want.
The next issue is that of regulation, although we know it shouldn't happen or perhaps may not at all, none of us want to secure houses against big loans or even have tens of thousands of items in stock when theoretically the mainstream nature of the business could fold away after a certain date and become incredibly specialised - how many shops selling JUST bongs and smoking paraphernalia do well purely because the main component behind all these items is illegal?
Again, as has been mentioned already. There are products that are only available through wholesale distributors who 'cherry pick' who they want to let sell their goods which is just guff really. It limits the choice available and stifles the industry unnecessarily IMO.
I think anyone who is trying to carve a good reputation out in this industry deserves a pat on the back when right now, at this time, it is actually a big risk. It may pay off - on a personal level I really hope so - but for me, i love vaping, I love the fact I have changed the minds of loads of friends and family members to get away from smoke and I hope we get the opportunity to continue to do so and make a living as we go.
Fleabag
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I've mixed feelings really about the market traders who've cropped up in the last year or so. My first venture into e-cigs (with cig-a-likes) was via a market trader - and I think the price was OK and the product as decent as cig-a-likes can be (i.e. not much!).
I got what I consider to be my first "proper" e-cig from a different vendor in the same market earlier this year (an e-go/CE4/Charger blister pack with a bottle of juice). It cost me £20. Looking at the bulk wholesale prices online, these sets probably cost him no more than £5 - that seems to me to be one hell of a mark-up for someone with minimal overheads. Even the local bricks & mortar shop that isn't particularly cheap could sell me the component parts (of better quality) for a similar price, and I could source them online much cheaper.
However, despite the cheap-looking clone set, it worked great and got me into the forums and interested in improving on the tanks, upgrading to the Twist etc, so I can't knock it too much. Market traders earn their living from converting the smoker to the e-cig, but they don't offer any consumables or individual upgrade items (he told me he wouldn't even have any bottles of juice to sell individually).
I'm toying with the idea of a market stall myself providing for the newby AND the converted, as there's definitely a gap in the market in the real world - decent quality tailor-made sets with a choice of batteries & tanks (cheaper than the basic kit I got) plus consumables, accessories & upgrade items. Granted, it still wouldn't initially include mods and the really expensive gear, but would be a huge improvement on what's out there now.
I got what I consider to be my first "proper" e-cig from a different vendor in the same market earlier this year (an e-go/CE4/Charger blister pack with a bottle of juice). It cost me £20. Looking at the bulk wholesale prices online, these sets probably cost him no more than £5 - that seems to me to be one hell of a mark-up for someone with minimal overheads. Even the local bricks & mortar shop that isn't particularly cheap could sell me the component parts (of better quality) for a similar price, and I could source them online much cheaper.
However, despite the cheap-looking clone set, it worked great and got me into the forums and interested in improving on the tanks, upgrading to the Twist etc, so I can't knock it too much. Market traders earn their living from converting the smoker to the e-cig, but they don't offer any consumables or individual upgrade items (he told me he wouldn't even have any bottles of juice to sell individually).
I'm toying with the idea of a market stall myself providing for the newby AND the converted, as there's definitely a gap in the market in the real world - decent quality tailor-made sets with a choice of batteries & tanks (cheaper than the basic kit I got) plus consumables, accessories & upgrade items. Granted, it still wouldn't initially include mods and the really expensive gear, but would be a huge improvement on what's out there now.
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