Vape Tax.. we all knew it was coming

[Crispycritters]

I'm not entirely convinced DIY will escape any tax except for nic shots if concentrates are simply regarded as nicotine free liquid just like a longfill.

I suspect you're right, but if concentrates are taxed at a pound per 10ml the VG/PG element can avoid tax, particularly if you source them separately. In the case of a 50ml DL shortfill if, for example, you use 10ml of concentrate, 40ml of VG/PG and a single 18mg nic shot and the flavouring element is taxed the tax element will be 4 pounds instead of 8 for a regular shortfill. Not great by any means - and it assumes you don't have anything purchased before taxes are introduced, but paying half the amount in tax is a step in the right direction. Sadly the numbers aren't too great for higher nic MTL juices where only small amounts of VG/PG are likely to be added.

I think concentrates will be targeted eventually probably sooner rather than later particularly if stores sell flavours, VG/PG and nic. Unfortunately I believe many will continue selling everything needed after the tax is introduced purely to clear stock. Rebranding vape flavouring to food flavours isn't going to fly under any radar if it is sold by a vendor who also sells nicotine.

 

[zouzounaki]

people who think flavour concentrates will be subject to a vape tax have lost the plot. maybe there’s an outside chance ones that say “vape” on the bottle will. very few concentrates i have say anything about “vape” on them. maybe even none.

 

[Crispycritters]

people who think flavour concentrates will be subject to a vape tax have lost the plot. maybe there’s an outside chance ones that say “vape” on the bottle will. very few concentrates i have say anything about “vape” on them. maybe even none.

But there is going to be a nicotine tax applied to zero nic juice so those that believe concentrates could also be taxed may not be as delusional as you think, particularly if they are sold by vendors that also sell nicotine.

It would be a different matter if the vendors ONLY sold flavourings and food related product, but most don't and all governments are relentless in their quest to increase their tax revenue.

DIYers will obviously in a better position but I think it would be prudent to make sure you have a decent stock of in date flavour concentrates as well as nic supplies before the taxes are introduced.

 

[hack400]

But there is going to be a nicotine tax applied to zero nic juice so those that believe concentrates could also be taxed may not be as delusional as you think, particularly if they are sold by vendors that also sell nicotine.

It would be a different matter if the vendors ONLY sold flavourings and food related product, but most don't and all governments are relentless in their quest to increase their tax revenue.

DIYers will obviously in a better position but I think it would be prudent to make sure you have a decent stock of in date flavour concentrates as well as nic supplies before the taxes are introduced.

The duty is levied at the point of import/manufacture, not sale.

 

[zouzounaki]

But there is going to be a nicotine tax applied to zero nic juice so those that believe concentrates could also be taxed may not be as delusional as you think, particularly if they are sold by vendors that also sell nicotine.

It would be a different matter if the vendors ONLY sold flavourings and food related product, but most don't and all governments are relentless in their quest to increase their tax revenue.

DIYers will obviously in a better position but I think it would be prudent to make sure you have a decent stock of in date flavour concentrates as well as nic supplies before the taxes are introduced.

i mostly use out of date ones, incidentally. but there is really no need to hoard them, they will be as easily available as they are now, for adding to cakes etc.

 

[MarylinC37]

It's hard to be sure of the exact mechanics of how it will all work but for limited companies they have to declare what category of goods or services they provide and any company who are classified as being fully or partially involved in the vape business may find it much more difficult to claim that any liquids they sell that can be used to make e-juice should not be subject to vape duty. I've no doubt that the legal eagles will all be pouring over everything once all the new rules are in place to find what they can and can't get away with.

Also in addition to paying duty at the point of manufacture or import I think there are also rules about change of use. So if a pharmacy sells VG it wouldn't be considered as being on sale as a vape product but a classified vape business could be forced to declare if it's for use in vape products and pay the vape duty when they buy it for re-sale.

 

[hack400]

It's hard to be sure of the exact mechanics of how it will all work but for limited companies they have to declare what category of goods or services they provide and any company who are classified as being fully or partially involved in the vape business may find it much more difficult to claim that any liquids they sell that can be used to make e-juice should not be subject to vape duty. I've no doubt that the legal eagles will all be pouring over everything once all the new rules are in place to find what they can and can't get away with.

Also in addition to paying duty at the point of manufacture or import I think there are also rules about change of use. So if a pharmacy sells VG it wouldn't be considered as being on sale as a vape product but a classified vape business could be forced to declare if it's for use in vape products and pay the vape duty when they buy it for re-sale.

Again, the duty will already been paid (at import/manufacture) by the time it ends up on the shelf, so VG sold in a vape shop would be no different than the VG sold in a pharmacy.

 

[Toby iVapour]

It's hard to be sure of the exact mechanics of how it will all work but for limited companies they have to declare what category of goods or services they provide and any company who are classified as being fully or partially involved in the vape business may find it much more difficult to claim that any liquids they sell that can be used to make e-juice should not be subject to vape duty. I've no doubt that the legal eagles will all be pouring over everything once all the new rules are in place to find what they can and can't get away with.

Also in addition to paying duty at the point of manufacture or import I think there are also rules about change of use. So if a pharmacy sells VG it wouldn't be considered as being on sale as a vape product but a classified vape business could be forced to declare if it's for use in vape products and pay the vape duty when they buy it for re-sale.

This seems likely to me...

And I would guess that the ones that will be able to get away with it are companies like FlavourArt, but would have to remove any mention of vapes etc, in order to circumnavigate the law, and rely on previous custom/those in the know.
Also, they would need to get round any type of flavour restriction that's gonna be inflicted...

Maybe it would be enough if whatever bottle for sale didn't have any mention of vapes.. who really knows yet...

And then we get back to the danger of anyone getting flavouring that is not suitable for vaping, and hazardous...

 

[Crispycritters]

The duty is levied at the point of import/manufacture, not sale.

If that is the case then flavourings may go under the radar.

One thing that worries me is If end sellers of pre-made juices must pay the duty in advance on any stocks of juice they buy in as tax has already been levied at manufacture then they will have to be absolutely certain they can sell it. I'm completely guessing here but I imagine your average High Street shop currently buy juice/nic at around half the retail price so they can pay rents/rates/taxes, pay staff and come out at the other end with an operating profit despite a certain amount of stock not selling before BBE expiry and ending up in the bin. As the taxes will be £5 on a 50ml short-fill, £10 on 100ml. £2 on any MTL 10ml under11mg?, £3 on any higher nic 10ml of MTL juice or nic shot then their losses on any stock they have to write off will treble instantly as they've already paid the taxes in advance... Realistically they will have to hike juice retail prices considerably in addition to the tax element as the cost of buying juice supplies will triple.

If that is the case then, even if flavour restrictions aren't introduced, then the days of walking into a vape shop and looking at a huge variety of different ranges in multiple flavours will be limited. If there is any question over if a juice will sell then buying any in will be a high financial risk so I doubt many owners can afford to take a gamble.

I made the assumption that end sellers would collect the taxes, if they have to pay it in advance when they buy in stock then that's fucking bleak as I can't see any government wanting to introduce a system to refund any outdated stocks that can't be sold.

Were all doomed.

It looks like I may be forced to have another go at DIY in a few years .With luck, If I'm still alive and kicking by then , my cognitive abilities may be reduced enough that I no longer realise that all DIY juices are rank. Arse.

 

[Toby iVapour]

Again, the duty will already been paid (at import/manufacture) by the time it ends up on the shelf, so VG sold in a vape shop would be no different than the VG sold in a pharmacy.

If they (whatever authority) classed the VG in the vape store as being a vape product, take them to court, and penalise either the retailer or manufacturer (or both) for selling a product without the duty being paid...
(if they suspect that the duty hasn't been paid)