A busy week, it has been... and the next one is inbound already.
Warning: Wall of text! Could be interesting for the original poster though.
An average cigarette gives approximately 8mg of nic, an eliquid tells you, ie 18mg is 18mg per millilitre but this is all relative to how you smoke a cigarette, I doubt most are lashed to one like a laboratory beagle.
Yes I have read that in the webs as well, but I guess it does so only at something like 1ohm coils at 15 Watts or so, so there if definitively more to it than just that.
The only reason why I was referring to "normal cig strength", is that you can only tell a position, is by referring to an origin.
One big point of vaping is to quit smoking and using cigs as a baseline is not only good for making the transition,
it is also helpful to quit nicotine, because you can say I'm down to 20% of cig strength etc.
What I aimed to figure out, was meant to help people with doing that, knowing where to start with a given setup, how switching setup impacts the results and how to keep track of the perceived strength you are on.
Unfortunately, I was not very successful in finding examples of what people use as setup and what they consider to be most similar to a cig at which coil(resistance) and wattage.
But the better way to do it anyway, would be just knowing how much juice (~nicotine) is evaporated (mass of the atoms) over time by a given setup (coil ~ resistance) at variable wattage.
This value could be measured in milligrams per per second (mg/s) and it would be very helpful to know.
For example it could be tweaked to correspond to the same amount of a cig (or some percentage of it), if you want to make a smooth switch
and it could also allow people to understand much better what they get out as perceived strength (eg. in % of a full cig by the same amount of nicotine mass over time during a puff).
I'm not only convinced it would have it's uses, but also that we will see it being done by someone in some future eventually.
We just miss the required data which depends on the coils ability to produce a certain amount juice vapor at a certain wattage.
Some people said it depends on X and Y, and I fully agree, but this isn't really the point here.
So let me quickly address these:
1.
You have to consider nic strength is usually higher for MTL than DTL use. Coupled with self titration, ie you don't vape once you'd had enough or you get a nic rush.
(I kind of addressed this before and just bring it here for the sake of responding to all points in one place)
a) "Nic strength is usually higher for MTL than DTL use"
Yes, and the reason for this is in my opinion not mainly that the tank is used either MTL or DTL (today there are many RTAs that can do both depending coil for example Innokin Zenith),
the real reason is that perceived nicotine strength depends mainly on coil(~ resitance) and on wattage.
Of course one need too change juice, wattage, coil, tank of even mod, to reach all ranges for wattage and ohmage, but these are mainly responsible for how much nicotine you inhalte.
a) Self-titration differs between persons
As said "The only reason why I was referring to "normal cig strength", is that you can only tell a position, is by referring to an origin."
Yes, but it is "similar" research and shows that, furthermore research also shows, that nicotine salts show very similar self-tritration characteristics as normal cigs on probands:
https://www.podlyfe.co.uk/blogs/new...m?shpxid=69f02d7b-ecb4-4134-840a-3fcfdaa0990c (the one and only graph in the middle)
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0887233319304126-gr6_lrg.jpg
https://vape.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/NICOTINE_SALTS_E-LIQUID.pdf
2.
Surely this has already been answered, the amount of nicotine you consume in say a day is determined by the nicotine strength of your juice and how many mls of juice you vape.
This is true in the end, no doubt and a appreciate this is a good way to deal with it as of now, but it requires you to do it first and then know better.
What I tried to do is helping to make a more informed decision upfront - "what to try" - even if it wouldn't be always a perfect prediction.
This can save time and money trying things out until you feel confident and could also help to understand better what changes to make if you are not satisfied.
3.
it depends on other things too, though. for example, if you take big long puffs and hold them in your lungs for ages at 10w with 18mg, you’ll prob be metabolising more nic than if you puff big clouds at 100w with 1.8mg, even of the total amount of nic in the respective liquid amounts is the same. simply because less cloud escapes into the environment.
a) "it depends on [...] if you take big long puffs and hold them in your lungs for ages
(Please don't feel taken out of context, some parts of this were addressed in previous points, I only take out the new arguments and isolate them into different sub-points)
If the same amount of nicotine is evaporated coming out of your coil over time as when you suck on a stinky cig, you pull out of your stick the same way, you can kind of expect the same for the same person.
(See the self-titration studies I linked above.)
If you inhale longer or shorter on one or the other, then that is just another parameter which is time per puff (which most vaping devices show you anyway), given similar self-titration which could be made a (settable) parameter too if we wanted it to be.
b) "if you take [..] puffs [...] at 10w with 18mg, you’ll prob be metabolising more nic than if you [...] at 100w with 1.8mg, even of the total amount of nic in the respective liquid amounts is the same. simply because less cloud escapes into the environment"
Yes, but I am not talking about nicotine concentration of the juice as output, it would be an input to the formula.
The output is "inhaled nicotine strength over time (while inhaling obviously)" as in milligram per second mg/s but finally as in percent (%) of "full cig" per puff (if you can tell inhale time and the other params).
The rest of what you said is exactly what I'm saying "Lower restance(more sub-ohmy coil) and higher wattage = more inhaled nic strength".
I just want to understand exactly how this transition between these fix points works and eventually describe it wity a curve or even handy formula and I think that should be possible if youi have the data.
I actually think this statement is kind of right
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/does-higher-wattage-stronger-nicotine-delivery.720431/
But from my personal experience, I just have the feeling the higher values are a little bit off (too high), which is probably due to the square root in the Ampere formula:
I = SQRT(P/R) ("Ampere ~ Output strength equals square root from Wattage divided by Resistance)
but its impossible to tell without more data (or people sharing their own experience).
I'm genuinely convinced there is something possible to do that can be useful for some people, but we can not get in possession of the necessary data.
But surely someone will at some point and make use of it.
Why don't you just have a toot whenever you feel like it and not worry about how much you've consumed. Just enjoy it and be thankful you're vaping and not smoking.
This is an absolutely valid point and don't get me wrong. I'm very happy with what we got nowadays. Vaping has never been that good and never was quit smoking easier.
But if we are always happy with what we got, there wouldn't be any evolution and I think thinks could be even better/easier.
I for myself needed multiple attempts to make the switch and one of the reasons was to not find sufficient information about this topic.
Long time ago I read this 18mg/ml is like a cig and I fired this up in sub-ohm device with 0.16 coils and around 70 watts.
I know this is silly, but when you don't know all the stuff yet it can be a hassle to figure it all out
and this can put people off and backdrop them to stick to the old school way, which just keeps causing damage.
I'm the opinion that everything which makes things simpler or gives better understanding for people is generally a good thing.
However, I get sometimes a bit the feeling, when people managed to climb the mountain all by themselves,
in some cases, they do not like the idea of a ropeway being installed to allow others to make a short cut. I might be wrong.
What I was having in mind originally is writing a little tool or (web) app for myself using my experience, experience from others
and figuring out a rough approximate curve/formula prolly based on I = SQRT(P/R) with some additional terms,
so that it allowed to see the effects of changing various parameters, like wattage, coil/resitance and nic concentration in terms of output nic strength.
Maybe I would have shared it at some point with a huge disclaimer.
But the required data to do this accurately can only be obtained by coil manufacturers and I'm just a guy, I do not work in that industry.
I'm sure, at some point, when people get more needy and there is competition between coil manufacturers they will pull it off eventually.
I imagine you will be able to go on their websites, chose a coil, juice concentration and wattage to see an output in inhaled nicotine strength over time (or simply percentage of full cig, if you pull the stick like the cig).
This could finally inspire the vape community to get in possession of this data and finally they may make their own tool that works for any coil.
But this is not what we have right now, it will require evolution and people who push for it.
Fuck me the Dave's are getting more umm "wordy"
Maybe they always were or maybe they got kinda triggered. (Thanks, for editing your post. It sounds actually friendlier this way
)
Why is this, umm? Thing is, while I was trying to explain my points clear, I got mainly relatively unhelpful responses some just trying to turn it down.
So I felt the need to make my points even clearer in hope to be understood better, but we all know how this turned out. It was a mildly disappointing experience
But no worries, it's all good, I'm gonna stop here, I was kind of attempting to stop with my last post, but now finally some good points were raised, which were worth addressing.
While what I was trying to solve, remains still solvable, but we lack the data to do so and I can not waste my time grinding for information.
I thank the OP for having the courage to ask this question and everyone who genuinely tried to help.
You're awesome!
FFS, just vape the fucker until you stop enjoying it.
I've DTL 20mg 50/50 salts and simply took fewer puffs.
I normally chain vape all day with a mixture of 20/18mg and 3mg.
Jesus christ, how can your tank hold that thin liquid?
I would be interessted which tank/coils and wattage range you use for this.
When I tried this (but with adding at least some VG) it was disgusting for me,
but I wasn't able to find small pulls from a high wattage DTL satisfying, and thus it felt very harsh.
(All) That being said, I wish a great night to everyone around! Over and out (: