Boris Johnson defends charging foreign NHS staff fees for service even though 'they saved my life'

[Gert Meyers]

Hmm,how do you feel about pregnant women from sub Sahara countries being told to fly over here by their doctors to give birth.Then they go back home without paying.

Hmmm... do you have a citation for that? Some numbers perhaps?

 

[Phat Barstood]

Was malice intended in what you said ? Of course not - I would suggest you didn’t think things thru properly before you spoke rather than you made a racist comment. A blonde moment possibly rightly deserving of a bit of jibing and a “dude really?” rather than being labelled a racist.

the definition of bigotry is an inability to hear or accept anyone else’s point of view other than your own.

In my experience bigotry is normally indulged in more by people who are calling others bigots than by the recipients themselves.

I should of said that this friend i has a bit of a short fuse.

It was of its time - should never be done now of course but it has its place in the comedy history books.

Why do you say that?.I thought that they poked fun at everybody but not in a malicious way.

 

[ZT]

I should of said that this friend i has a bit of a short fuse.

Why do you say that?.I thought that they poked fun at everybody but not in a malicious way.

Ahhh - i would probably have him apoplectic with twenty minutes then - possibly on purpose


Errrr hmmm ... good point! On thinking about it probably because it’s what your expected to say - in reality I wouldn’t give a shit.

im all for spitting image coming back.

 

[ZT]

This is intrinsically about racism. The race of those who work in the NHS dictates the availability of the healthcare they are offered.
It's another racist, by an overtly racist PM.

The fact they are not UK nationals dictates the availability of the healthcare they are offered - not the country they come from.

I’m not even arguing against you - I agree with you - just not your view of why it’s happened.

 

[Phat Barstood]

Hmmm... do you have a citation for that? Some numbers perhaps?

Oh dear,i knew this wouldn't go unquestioned.
I only mentioned it because of the babies don't pay taxes remark.
It was a evening news report (shown last year when unpaid NHS procedures on foreign nationals was a 'thing') that highlighted the unusual phenomenon of African women flying to the UK on advice of their own doctor to give birth due to perceived difficulties.
These women would routinely fly back home without paying.
Of cause these women aren't the only type of health tourist and i didn't single them out because they're women or African.
It's a fact that the NHS is owed millions by these so called health tourists which also includes ex pats travelling back their old GP.

 

[knome]

It was of its time - should never be done now of course but it has its place in the comedy history books.

Really?
You're saying Goodness Gracious Me, an ensemble of mainly Asian actors doing Asian characters is of its time.
Are you confusing it with It Ain't Half Hot Mum?

 

[ZT]

Really?
Your saying Goodness Gracious Me, an ensemble of mainly Asian actors doing Asian characters is of its time.
Are you confusing it with It Aint Half Hot Mum?

Actually - yes ..... yes I am ....

 

[ZT]

Goodness gracious me was awesome actually - but your are correct - I was thinking of it ain’t half hot mum

I think it was the army uniforms in the picture ....

 

[Gert Meyers]

Oh dear,i knew this would go unquestioned.
I only mentioned it because of the babies don't pay taxes remark.
It was a evening news report (shown last year when unpaid NHS procedures on foreign nationals was a 'thing') that highlighted the unusual phenomenon of African women flying to the UK on advice of their own doctor to give birth due to perceived difficulties.
These women would routinely fly back home without paying.
Of cause these women aren't the only type of health tourist and i didn't single them out because they're women or African.
It's a fact that the NHS is owed millions by these so called health tourists which also includes ex pats travelling back their old GP.

Nobody is accusing you of racism.

The Daily Mail and the Express have reported this week that the Government has shelved its plans to crackdown on health tourism, amid accusations that “MPs have caved in to left wing doctors” – so what are the facts?

Pilot schemes have been running at 18 hospitals, introducing charging into some community services, with NHS Trusts having a duty to check the eligibility of all patients before providing treatment in hospital, including many in London. The schemes, which were begun following an expansion of regulations in October 2017 have now been abandoned after continuous campaigning and complaints about the impact of the policy. Some patients were being asked to pay upfront or risk being turned away. At the end of April, the Guardian reported on the death of an anti-FGM campaigner and asylum seeker from Gambia, known as Saloum, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer after collapsing in the street last December. Following initial NHS treatment he was sent away because he was not eligible for free NHS care as an undocumented migrant.

However, the charity Doctors of the World, argued that treatment for his cancer was urgent and immediately necessary, which under the regulations should have meant he was treated. Eventually he was given some treatment at the University Hospitals of Derby and Burton NHS foundation trust. Other stories include a woman with advanced breast cancer denied potentially life-saving therapy for six weeks and one of the Windrush generation, who was denied NHS radiotherapy for six months due to uncertainty over his immigration status.

Campaigns spearheaded by groups such as Docs not Cops have questioned the effectiveness and safety of the pilot schemes. Action by campaigners prompted England’s biggest NHS trust, Barts Health, to stop photo ID checks and remove posters warning: ‘NHS hospital treatment is not free for everyone.’

What do the figures say? In May 2018, the Evening Standard reported that figures from London hospitals found that of 8,894 people asked for two forms of ID prior to treatment only 50 actually had to pay for their care.

Media outlets, such as the Daily Mail and The Express, have stated that ‘health tourism’ costs the NHS £280 million, but there is no reliable evidence to support this figure. The organisation Full Fact last looked at the figures for health tourism in 2016 and noted that any estimate will be very rough. All the figures used by Full Fact and other organisations come from a 2013 Government report.

The 2013 report estimated that ineligible people cost the NHS almost £2 billion a year, but those that possibly fall into the category of ‘health tourist’ cost the NHS £100 to £300 million a year or 0.3% of annual health spend.

The report makes it clear that it is extremely difficult to calculate a health tourism figure and that it can only provide a rough estimate. Two reasons why;

Firstly, it is very difficult to track patients who are not eligible to use the service as no charge is made for GP and emergency services.

Secondly, there are flows in both directions. The UK creates its own health tourists from people who move to Europe but then come back to the UK to use the NHS, including seeing a GP for repeat prescriptions.

Although the pilot checking schemes seem to have been abandoned, the regulations put in place in the Immigration Act 2014 are still in place. The Act expanded the group of people who can be charged and introduced an ‘immigration health surcharge’ for those seeking visas to enter the UK, and a charge of upto 150% of the cost of treatment in hospital.

Reaction to the scheme Groups, such as Docs not Cops and Doctors of the World, say the regulations have created considerable problems – wasting considerable time and money on checking and caused extensive human suffering.

These groups are not alone in condemning the regulations, but despite this at the end of 2018, Secretary of State for Health & Social Care, Matt Hancock stated that “there is no significant evidence that the 2017 amendment regulations have led to overseas visitors being deterred from treatment or that the changes have had an impact on public health”. As a result of his statement in December 2018, the Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH), Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) and the Faculty of Public Health (FPH) called upon the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) to suspend the charging regime (NHS Charges to Overseas Visitors) (Amendment) Regulations 2017, pending a full independent review of their impact.

Source: https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/health-tourism-serious-problem-or-tabloid-creation/

 

[harumph]

Hmmm... do you have a citation for that? Some numbers perhaps?

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/
https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/
https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-savings-wont-plug-hole-nhs-funding/

full fact are completely independent and check facts from all sides.

They generally estimate up to £300 million per year or 0.3% of NHS budget

you might think eh, what's 0.3%? well, more than enough to pay for foreign carers and NHS to have the same access, roughly £90million that would be.

Health tourism exists, it is a problem, and it's not necessarily easy to solve.