Debt and the pandemic - increased or decreased?

[andipandi]

A mortgage is a secured loan, credit cards and most other loans are unsecured, people do know the difference.

Perversely, when the poll tax was introduced, there was lots of expert advice that people should pay their pay poll tax first, above and beyond anything else, including ones mortgage, that was disgusting advice. And just how many people cannot afford to die, be buried or cremated, or pay for someone else's funeral. Most people have no idea about the levels of funeral poverty out there, or the abhorrent and out of control spiralling cost of a funeral, until it smacks them in the face.

 

[Crispycritters]

it doesn't sound like you've retired into an easy life. You live alone Crispy?

I do live alone, but alone suits me - I always found being part of a couple worked great as long as I was working at sea, when I came home it wasn't so good... As for living at sea - it involved living in close proximity with a lot of people for months at a time so I really like the whole 'my own space' idea.

My retirement was my own decision due to being single and lazy, rather than redundancy or health reasons - I wouldn't describe life as hard as my living standards haven't really changed, I just didn't want to work for another 6 years in a shit job for money I could manage without so I took the option to slob it and pay my own National Insurance for the last 6 years before I hit state pension age - only 2 more to go so no big deal as I'm starting to really enjoy being lazy.

Its just a coincidence that my household white goods and heating are crapping out at the same time but they're all pretty old now so its no surprise. I've had a long succession of cheap runabout cards - after spending most of my adult life travelling on ships, and coming back to find my motor buried under a coat of sea gull crap anything better has never made any sense to me - when this one dies I'll just pick up another cheapo runabout and phone up the local scrappy to get shut of the old one, like I've done for 40 years or so.

I'm surprised the money I haven't spent in the pub over the last year and a bit will cover everything (except either the heating or next bingo chariot car) but I've got a decent rainy day fund I can dip into if needs be.

I know my lifestyle wouldn't suit most people, but I'm enjoying it. I guess I may be a little anti-social as I haven't found lockdown particularly difficult - after getting used to the idea of the pubs being shut its been a breeze.

 

[Miss Pepper]

With all due respect, you're just talking shit, saying what you think other people semantically consider debt to be or how they choose to manage it. Affordability is a completely different thing. Debt is debt.

I'm not 'talking shit' as you so politely put it, I am basing it on what some people say from reading a wide range of sources and speaking with various people with different income levels.

Affordability adds another level, which is also a totally different subject, and some people can have the rug pulled from under them as this pandemic has demonstrated.

So wind your fucking neck in.

 

[leisureliquids]

A mortgage is a secured loan, credit cards and most other loans are unsecured, people do know the difference.

Perversely, when the poll tax was introduced, there was lots of expert advice that people should pay their pay poll tax first, above and beyond anything else, including ones mortgage, that was disgusting advice. And just how many people cannot afford to die, be buried or cremated, or pay for someone else's funeral. Most people have no idea about the levels of funeral poverty out there, or the abhorrent and out of control spiralling cost of a funeral, until it smacks them in the face.

I agree that funeral poverty is totally out of control. I am forever seeing "just giving" appeals on social media for a loved ones funeral costs. I am donating my body to medical research personally. I wont have my body returned to the family so no funeral expenses. If your dead, your dead!

 

[andipandi]

I agree that funeral poverty is totally out of control. I am forever seeing "just giving" appeals on social media for a loved ones funeral costs. I am donating my body to medical research personally. I wont have my body returned to the family so no funeral expenses. If your dead, your dead!

Same as that, but it's not straightforward, you have the Human Tissue Act 2004 to contend with and there's no guarantee that medical schools will accept a particular body. I know one lady, who had to sell her tiny run down house and move into a flat, because she couldn't pay the funeral cost, when her partner died. Not sure if it's still the case, but if you don't sign a funeral contract, then you cant be held responsible for the costs. I've told my wife in no uncertain terms "Don't give those thieving chunts, your few grands worth of savings, do not sign a contract". Them and their pretend caring and compassion, nope, they just want your fucking money.

 

[Rob]

Be careful with that one @leisureliquids Not as straight forward as people think. I know of 2 cases where it had all been agreed and signed off, only to have it reversed after they had died and suddenly the families found themselves having to make all arrangements and facing problems as there had been deemed no need for Funeral cover etc.

 

[Fuctifino]

I'm not 'talking shit' as you so politely put it, I am basing it on what some people say from reading a wide range of sources and speaking with various people with different income levels.

Affordability adds another level, which is also a totally different subject, and some people can have the rug pulled from under them as this pandemic has demonstrated.

So wind your fucking neck in.

I think what you was trying to say that some people see certain debts/loans
as merely "monthly outgoings" than as an actual real debt...
Some see "debt" as a large figure being owed/claimed/ to be paid in full on demand etc...

You said a mortgage is a debt - but some might see it as similar to paying rent on property
so though it IS A DEBT, "some" might view it more as a monthly outgoing than as the debt it truly is

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My own personal circumstances...

not much difference tbh, continued working all the way through the last 14 months
Missus worked from home - so she has saved some fares/petrol I guess
BUT - had kids back home, so a bit more grub, leccy & stuff - so the money saved
has been mostly swallowed up with full house most of the time.
(Not charging rent, coz they are saving for a deposit - missus glad to have them home)

Probably got some dosh saved for a holiday - fuck knows when that will happen
But overall - roughly about the same as prior to lockdown
(Didn't really eat out loads or live in the pub pissing it up, so again not much changed)

Been fortunate, much the same as before, but others have had it a lot harder
so much so, it drives it home how fortunate I am - even just by doing OK like before

Not just the debt/financial side of things, but people's mental well being is a big concern
(though financial problems seriously add to the stress of it all)

Best wishes to all - hope some real normality can return soon for all our sakes

 

[Miss Pepper]

There are public health funerals, if no one has the money to pay, details should be on local council websites or by searching online.

Donating bodies is straightforward, but at time of death the cadaver must meet requirements of the establishment it was left to, they also need space for it.

 

[andipandi]

There are public health funerals, if no one has the money to pay, details should be on local council websites or by searching online.

If only it was that simple, public health funerals are generally for people with no next of kin, or next of kin who cannot be located.

Public health funerals are provided by local authorities for people who have passed away and have no next of kin, or whose next of kin, relatives or friends are unable or unwilling to make the necessary arrangements for a funeral. They are designed to protect public health and are important in ensuring that all individuals are treated with dignity and respect, regardless of their circumstances.

Sounds simple and easy enough, right

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...public-health-funerals-good-practice-guidance



But the price was going up and up, and where were we going to find the money? Who would have £5,000 in their account, just sitting there? £9,000, £10,000? If you don’t have it, you have to go to the council. And if the council gives you the funeral, it is a pauper’s funeral, and other people can be buried on top. Who wants to be called a pauper? You can’t put flowers there, you can’t leave a mark. I carried my son for nine months, he was born, grew up to be 21, then he passes away – and if I can’t afford to bury him I have to put him in a hole with other people. I have to condemn him to that. When I go back to visit him, talk to him, I’m talking to other people. How do you work that out?

I know the government is dealing with a lot of big things at the moment, but it’s not dealing with the effects of death. It should put something in place to support low-income families who have to arrange a funeral, something solid, direct. Something should also be done to keep a check on funeral homes and the fees they charge. Why do they charge so much – £10,000 in some cases? How do we know the money is going where it’s supposed to go?

This battle I had to go through to get a decent funeral for my son has had a huge impact on my life, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

Rahim is buried now, but it was so painful and the worst thing was not having time to grieve. I feel like the world is a different place at the moment. I don’t want to go out. I don’t see myself out there, doing the things I want to do. Most people wouldn’t speak publicly about bad things that have happened to them, they have too much pride. But I don’t care, I don’t want to see anyone else go through what I did with this funeral. People helped me, so I want to help other people.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rieve-cant-afford-funeral-low-income-families

https://quakersocialaction.org.uk/we-can-help/helping-funerals/down-earth

 

[Miss Pepper]

What I'm saying is some people see any money they owe on credit or finance as just another thing to pay, not thinking about the underlying outstanding money as debt as it's affordable either due to current income levels or savings / investments.

Some see the underlying money as debt, regardless of income, savings, investments.

Some see debt as only being something people struggle to pay back.

Me personally I see debt as being money owed, regardless of whatever platform it came from and whether it's affordable or not. Which is why I said I've only the mortgage. If I use the CC today, it's a debt until payday when it's cleared.