E Cig Legislation - Chris Davies Email - Clearing the confusion

[Gonloopy]

Well, generally, can't say that I'm happy, but going from what I was reading last night through to what I've just read now, we are in a lot better place than it first appeared .

Not brilliant but could be worse.

If I have to buy liquid in 10ml bottles I will, we still have the full range of flavours, ( which personally I was most fearful that the EU would come down hardest on) .
At the end of the day, -most of us have an out and about kit and a home kit .If we choose to put 5mls in an RBA at home ( of which I'm sure I will have bought plenty by 2016)
- well that's our business

 

[Chez]

It's FAR from a perfect solution but in all fairness I would accept it over a ban. I mainly vape to avoid tobacco, so in that respect I will still be able to buy my juices for now and vape rather than have no liquids at all. Still a lot of fighting to be done though to make them see sense about ecigs over the longer term future though.

 

[Chez]

By all means if there is a product out there which poses a risk to our safety, for example the exploding Chinese chargers, then by all means ban them, but PLEASE do it sensibly.

We have a lot more lobbying to do re the nicotine issues, and someone needs to make this clear. For example when will the higher amounts be taken off sale? 2016?

 

[frank 133]

Why have kids come into it at all?
What about old people,they might think this looks good to drink,[plus they can get the tops off]
All your potential child poisons are conveniently located at child level ,in the cupboard under the sink.

 

[VaperCaper]

Eliquid concentrations
There will be a ban on liquids containing a higher concentration of nicotine than 20mg/ml and a ban on having more than 2ml of liquid in an e-cig. That means there will be a maximum of 40mg (20mg/ml x 2 ml) in any one e-cig.
There will also be a limit of 10ml liquid in any one refill bottle but no limit on the number of bottles you can buy.

so lets break that down. 20mg nic content.. ok fair enough i would say that in general most vapers are use 18mg and under though some may start at 24mg 20 isnt the end of the world.
the 10ml limit is going to have a huge impact on costs. i very rarely by 10ml now normally 30 and 50ml bottles. sure i can get 5 x 10ml but this will drive prices up with costs of the actual bottles.

It's cheaper to post 5x 10ml bottles filled with e-Liquid (90p) than it is to post 1 empty 30ml bottle (£3) - it's such a large difference that it outweighs the costs of the extra bottles (about 20p a bottle including labelling)

a maximum 2ml in any one ecig.
again this is going to be a a very tricky one.. the only way i can see them able to implement this is to ban tanks larger than 2ml so other than drippers and the likes of ce5's this is going to mean RSST, Kraken, Ithaka, any gensis tank, Russian , Kayfun and the rest will all be banned.

Pretty much. They can't come in and take away tanks you already have, so existing kit isn't going to be illegal, it will just be illegal to sell tanks with a larger capacity once this comes into force (2016ish) Most tanks now of ProTank kind of size aren't actually that much more than 2ml anyway. It's a stupid rule though. There is more danger to the hypothetical toddler getting hold of a 10ml bottle of e-liquid that's not been secured properly (top loose) than there is from the same toddler getting hold of a full RSST.

seems one way or another they are determined to regulate what we intake and how much all at a cost.. and for those that already own 3,4 5ml or bigger tanks are we going to get the tank police stop us in the street and take a liquid content measurement to see if we are within the legal limits?

As I understand it the tank size argument is to stop kids getting hold of and accidentally ingesting over a certain amount of nicotine. While nicotine does appear to be less dangerous than previously thought the stuff is still lethal to young kids. While I can see where they are coming from at least with this I don't think it's a good idea myself.

The mg/ml limit is BAD. 20mg/ml is *just about* workwithable, but again there is no justification for this level, other than "but the chldren!!!!!" - in all 7 years to date since vaping became more widespread there has been 1 case of accidental poisoning and that came from a juice bottle. In the same timeframe how many kids have been poisoned from other common household chemicals? (sadly more than one)

The lower strength limit will put an artificial barrier in the way of some new vapers. Existing savvy vapers will likely be able to find ways around it, but new and potential vapers will likely find that low strength vapes don't cut it for them at the beginning and they'll go back to or stay on tobacco smoking rather than switch or dual fuel.

E-cigs are handing Public Health/anti-smoking campaigners the keys to the problem. gift wrapped, on a silver platter. It'll cost them practically nothing and instead of welcoming and championing a way to help smokers quit smoking easily they are raising holy hell about e-cigs as they do not understand them and refuse to learn.

 

[pabs]

Given that nicotine solutions will be restricted to 20mg/ml, may we find that buying pg and/or vg is a thing of the past as you won't want to dilute your solution too much if at all? Hence vendors may sell a range of pg/vg nicotine solutions (say 70/30 nicotine solutions) - just add your flavouring?

The 2ml device limit seems designed to inconvenience people enough to push them back onto analogs (I tried to resist cynicism). Interestingly and sadly this will effect the heavier vapers (who I will assume were the heavier smokers). Maybe disposables will become even more popular, which would definitely benefit those companies who can leverage a capacity for mass production and economies of scale.

Am I reading this right?

 

[Chez]

Bleach
Weedkiller
Toilet Cleaner
Floor Cleaner
Screenwash
Antifreeze
Rat poison (also causes awful lingering death in rodents and is not supported by myself as a rat owner)
Ant bait
Prescription drugs (cause thousands of deaths a year)
paracetamol (a popular choice for suicidal teenagers, causes lengthy death from liver failure and has killed thousands, very easy to accidentally overdose on, available freely in most shops for as little as 16p for loads)
Codeine in OTC preparations (I myself am in drug treatment on a subutex program for an addiction to products such as Nurofen Plus), abuse can kill as ibuprofen and paracetamol as we know are toxic in overdose, available from most pharmacies with little to no questioning, DRUG A MILLION TIMES MORE ADDICTIVE than nicotine, causes severe withdrawal symptoms if stopped abruptly.

And hundreds of other everyday toxic products can all kill a child, and an adult.

Where are the bans on these???????

 

[MrPT]

E-cigs are handing Public Health/anti-smoking campaigners the keys to the problem. gift wrapped, on a silver platter. It'll cost them practically nothing and instead of welcoming and championing a way to help smokers quit smoking easily they are raising holy hell about e-cigs as they do not understand them and refuse to learn.

You know aswel as i do the reason for it, the good ole ££. Right now at current estimated user uptake of 1.3million vapers in britain, if each was a 20/day smoker who bought their cigs legally the government would be losing in tax revenue £8million per day, yes per day thats just shy of 3billion per year(that's just over 10% of the uk's smoking population). With the estimated exponential growth of the industry stating that by 2016 there would be over 5million users(50%) thats alot of money our government and the european governements cannot afford to lose when you look at the 2 biggest campaigners of the ecig poland and germany and their population of smokers (both around 35%) we understand why.

Now you compare that to the highly backed and endorsed NRT systems. Again its revenue generating, but it also doesnt really work. 5% success gives the fact that for every smoker that quits there are probably more new smokers keeping the ££ flowing all the while the government is seen to be campainging hard to help people quit. Its a sham, one that because of the highly gullible population works very well.

(ps offtopic do you have a vamo, battery and charger only kit on your site, ie no attys? cant seem to get you to load, if you do can you pm me a link and i will try another pc with it, cheers)

 

[Neilboat]

Personal, I think 2oz pouches of Nic should be argued

Or else all potentially toxic products such as bleach and toilet cleaner should be sold in 10ml bottles

 

[clint]

You know aswel as i do the reason for it, the good ole ££. Right now at current estimated user uptake of 1.3million vapers in britain, if each was a 20/day smoker who bought their cigs legally the government would be losing in tax revenue £8million per day, yes per day thats just shy of 3billion per year(that's just over 10% of the uk's smoking population). With the estimated exponential growth of the industry stating that by 2016 there would be over 5million users(50%) thats alot of money our government and the european governements cannot afford to lose when you look at the 2 biggest campaigners of the ecig poland and germany and their population of smokers (both around 35%) we understand why.

Now you compare that to the highly backed and endorsed NRT systems. Again its revenue generating, but it also doesnt really work. 5% success gives the fact that for every smoker that quits there are probably more new smokers keeping the ££ flowing all the while the government is seen to be campainging hard to help people quit. Its a sham, one that because of the highly gullible population works very well.

(ps offtopic do you have a vamo, battery and charger only kit on your site, ie no attys? cant seem to get you to load, if you do can you pm me a link and i will try another pc with it, cheers)

That's just hit the nail on the head for me and it shows how two faced the government are. After years of campaigning against smoking, when push finally comes to shove, they make it blatantly obvious that they don't really want us to stop.