Should restrictions be lifted on the 19th?

[Simon G]

i think there are different ways of looking at it. but for me the idea that the government are using the pandemic as an excuse to implement an authoritarian dystopia seems daft. we might be/have already/ walked into one, but this doesn’t represent it. the aftermath might, though.

I think not being able to visit a dying relative in hospital, police pushing their way into people's homes for no reason than 'there might a a family member that doesn't live there' sat in the lounge or people being arrested for sitting outside talking to someone else is an authoritarian dystopia.

It's been proven (?) that the virus is extremely difficult to transmit outside or in well ventilated areas, but that has been the excuse to stop people gathering, protesting, going to the beach and any number of normal things. I think rather than shutting everyone inside we should have been encouraged to go outside as much as possible. The message should have been go out, be free but avoid enclosed spaces.

I just can't explain all the BS any other way, an hours exercise? why not 2 hours? what difference does it make? what difference does it make if people are 'exercising' or doing some other activity outside all day?

Either the government are lying all the time, or they are completely stupid (I know which you'll say) either way, I don't know why we are taking any notice.

 

[andipandi]

if you are making love it is imperative to bring all bodies to orgasm simultaneously. do not waste time blocking your ears. do not waste time seeking a sound proof shelter.

Think only of yourself.
Do not panic.

 

[zouzounaki]

I think not being able to visit a dying relative in hospital, police pushing their way into people's homes for no reason than 'there might a a family member that doesn't live there' sat in the lounge or people being arrested for sitting outside talking to someone else is an authoritarian dystopia.

It's been proven (?) that the virus is extremely difficult to transmit outside or in well ventilated areas, but that has been the excuse to stop people gathering, protesting, going to the beach and any number of normal things. I think rather than shutting everyone inside we should have been encouraged to go outside as much as possible. The message should have been go out, be free but avoid enclosed spaces.

I just can't explain all the BS any other way, an hours exercise? why not 2 hours? what difference does it make? what difference does it make if people are 'exercising' or doing some other activity outside all day?

Either the government are lying all the time, or they are completely stupid (I know which you'll say) either way, I don't know why we are taking any notice.

see that aspect of the restrictions has been different here. there’s never been a time limit on how long we can be outside as far as i was aware. and where we live it’s quite nice, although we live in a flat there is a beautiful park round the corner and a river path i can cycle along all the way to the countryside. and having the wee nipper we’ve had to be spending time out most or every day for the whole of the lockdowns.

but to me an authoritarian dystopia is somewhere like north korea. or china. the government here have imposed these rules very reluctantly and can’t wait to lift them. they want to shaft us (non rich people) but not by imposing lockdowns etc.

i think the possibility of terrible chaos would be worth keeping some measures in place. for example, masks and social distancing will remain mandatory in scotland. a good idea, i think. no issue putting a mask on a maintaining distance from others in the supermarket or the bus. don’t get me wrong, when my family come to visit i give them a hug.

i get that other people’s experience of this might be different (and worse) than mine.

 

[Simon G]

see that aspect of the restrictions has been different here. there’s never been a time limit on how long we can be outside as far as i was aware. and where we live it’s quite nice, although we live in a flat there is a beautiful park round the corner and a river path i can cycle along all the way to the countryside. and having the wee nipper we’ve had to be spending time out most or every day for the whole of the lockdowns.

but to me an authoritarian dystopia is somewhere like north korea. or china. the government here have imposed these rules very reluctantly and can’t wait to lift them. they want to shaft us (non rich people) but not by imposing lockdowns etc.

i think the possibility of terrible chaos would be worth keeping some measures in place. for example, masks and social distancing will remain mandatory in scotland. a good idea, i think. no issue putting a mask on a maintaining distance from others in the supermarket or the bus. don’t get me wrong, when my family come to visit i give them a hug.

i get that other people’s experience of this might be different (and worse) than mine.

I'm not totally against some restrictions.... the problem is I don't want them to be the ones that effect me, and I guess most people feel like that.

But more seriously, I don't mind when they make sense but half the time they don't (to me anyway) .... how is having a restaurant full of people, all eating, drinking, laughing and maskless fine, but walking into that same restaurant you need to have a mask on.

as for supermarkets... maybe there's just more around here but loads of people aren't wearing a mask now, they've all started doing the 'I'm exempt' thing and apparently they can't even be challenged or refused entry.. so who am I wearing a mask for? It's not going to stop me catching it, from them is it? I've started doing it online again because I had going.

 

[zouzounaki]

I'm not totally against some restrictions.... the problem is I don't want them to be the ones that effect me, and I guess most people feel like that.

But more seriously, I don't mind when they make sense but half the time they don't (to me anyway) .... how is having a restaurant full of people, all eating, drinking, laughing and maskless fine, but walking into that same restaurant you need to have a mask on.

as for supermarkets... maybe there's just more around here but loads of people aren't wearing a mask now, they've all started doing the 'I'm exempt' thing and apparently they can't even be challenged or refused entry.. so who am I wearing a mask for? It's not going to stop me catching it, from them is it? I've started doing it online again because I had going.

aye, i agree half of it hasn’t made sense. for example, we were restricted from leaving the local council area for walking/recreation. however if you read the rules, it actually said you could travel 5 miles outside it to walk in a quiet place.

i think a lot of the stupidity is down to incompetent governments, and also the fact that this situation is unprecedented and they were winging it to a certain extent.

i agree with the restaurant thing, it makes no sense to me. but stuff like nightclubs opening seems like madness, especially with the stories published about what’s happened in the netherlands.

 

[vapesmarter]

@zouzounaki i saw your first minister announce the layout and plan for Scotland it was a balanced approach I thought

but I didn’t see a big revolt loads of freedom campaigns etc

so why is England so different I just can’t figure it out

 

[Simon G]

Just been reading this on the Beeb, you should read the whole thing but these two bits really jump out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57751056

"But that does not mean government scientists do not have concerns. Behind the scenes, they have been questioning the policy on face masks, in particular, after ministers made big play last week of the fact mask-wearing would no longer be legally required. Not because it will dramatically alter the course of rising infections, but because of the message it sent out - that controlling infection no longer mattered."

and

"
Instead, scientists expect some sort of equilibrium will be reached, whereby the R number, the average number of people an infected person passes the virus on to, will fluctuate around one.

This will see more manageable waves ebb and flow. And with vaccines offering good protection against serious illness, society will be more willing to tolerate the burden.

After all, in the most recent bad winter - 2017-18 - there were 300 to 400 flu deaths a day at the peak, more than is being predicted for this summer's Covid peak."

(how was that acceptable to us then?)

... honestly, I don't know what to think any more, but I'm not going to worry about it either way and I do think we are probably being manipulated into being more fearful and worried than we need to be.

 

[Leni]

"But that does not mean government scientists do not have concerns. Behind the scenes, they have been questioning the policy on face masks, in particular, after ministers made big play last week of the fact mask-wearing would no longer be legally required. Not because it will dramatically alter the course of rising infections, but because of the message it sent out - that controlling infection no longer mattered."

Why does that bit jump out at you? Because you think controlling infection doesn’t matter? The rest of the article shows why a gradual approach is needed. The next line is -

“This has led to a definite change of approach in recent days. Ministers are now stressing the need to keep wearing masks in crowded indoor places.”

The bit that jumped out at me was this -

“And if this does happen, it will come at a significant cost. While the vaccination programme has reduced the number of Covid deaths 10-fold, there could still be 100 to 200 deaths a day. About half of those are expected to be in unvaccinated people. It will also cause major disruption to the NHS. To put those summer figures into context, hospitals would expect to see about 1,000 admissions a day in the depths of winter, for all types of respiratory infections. “We could get through it as we have before," says Dr Alison Pittard, of the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine. "But it would be at the expense of elective care and other treatments."

Maybe what we need is a modern equivalent of the old TB sanitariums? Covid is going nowhere, maybe specialist centres for treating patients with respiratory conditions away from general hospitals would help people with other conditions get their treatment too. If my wearing a mask in crowded areas, and being careful for a bit longer would mean I’d eventually get the surgery on my spine that meant I wouldn’t be in constant pain, I’d happily do it. Or for my neighbour to get the Chemo that’ll give them a few more years with their grandkids? Yeah, I’d do it.

It’s got to be a balancing act, I think they’re just worried that too many people are going to start behaving like the England fans on Sunday, and fuck it up for all of us

 

[zouzounaki]

Just been reading this on the Beeb, you should read the whole thing but these two bits really jump out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57751056

"But that does not mean government scientists do not have concerns. Behind the scenes, they have been questioning the policy on face masks, in particular, after ministers made big play last week of the fact mask-wearing would no longer be legally required. Not because it will dramatically alter the course of rising infections, but because of the message it sent out - that controlling infection no longer mattered."

and

"
Instead, scientists expect some sort of equilibrium will be reached, whereby the R number, the average number of people an infected person passes the virus on to, will fluctuate around one.

This will see more manageable waves ebb and flow. And with vaccines offering good protection against serious illness, society will be more willing to tolerate the burden.

After all, in the most recent bad winter - 2017-18 - there were 300 to 400 flu deaths a day at the peak, more than is being predicted for this summer's Covid peak."

(how was that acceptable to us then?)

... honestly, I don't know what to think any more, but I'm not going to worry about it either way and I do think we are probably being manipulated into being more fearful and worried than we need to be.

might you be misinterpreting those highlighted bits? i don’t think he is saying that wearing masks doesn’t make a difference to the spread of infection. and likewise 300-400 deaths a day due to flu wasn’t acceptable. but i don’t think the writer is saying it was, rather just making a comparison.

 

[vapesmarter]

this situation day by day is getting just mentally terrible

I'm due in tonight I'm dreading it, at the height of the pandemic I was nervous but now it's just like being beaten down the infection rates that I have seen from friends are getting worse. my son got pinged "isolate" my son's partner got pinged "isolate" their office 40% are off isolating, today, now, he knows more people either "isolating" or sick than at the height of the pandemic.

I'm desperate to walk out just leave I've looked and re-looked at my savings how long could i last on them

then I have crazy conversations like "the people who don't get the vaccine will die because they're stupid" from one colleague I just walked away there is a percentage of the population that cannot have the jab because they are so ill or have severe mental health problems or high chances of harm if they have a jab, they are not the stupid or anti vaxers.