UK Gov To Ban Disposables?

[zouzounaki]

I agree with you that they are abusing it for the purpose of marketing which apart from when it is targeted at kids is perfectly legitimate. When it comes to specific marketing at kids I think it is far more problematic whe they put 'Gummy Bears' or 'Barbie' on the front rather than a statement which is backed up by very good scientific evidence.

As you say, most kids probably are vaping legal safer vapes because they are the most widespread and easy to get hold of.

The only potential area of issue I see with that 95% statement is that the level of safety will be dependant on the level of nicotine and also on what else is contained in whatever juice is being used.

The 95% statement itself though has had a hugely beneficial effect on persuading smokers to turn to vaping instead so they need to think very hard before trying to erase it.

nic strength has no bearing on the “level of safety” as you put it. 50mg liquid is no more harmful as a thing in itself than 20, or 10. unless people are drinking it.

i don’t think anyone is talking about erasing the 95% safer message. but it’s valid to point out problems it might have caused.

 

[Toby iVapour]

.. that the level of safety will be dependant on the level of nicotine...

I don't know where you get that idea from.. nicotine is relatively benign.. as long as it is not taken in doses where it becomes poisonous or overdose.. and that is not really possible even from 50mg/ml e-cigs, as the user wouldn't be able to puff for long enough to inhale a nicotine overdose level, or feel sick before they did...

 

[MarylinC37]

Since 100% nicotine is classed a poison I think it unlikely that vaping higher levels of it won't come with an increased risk of harmful effects. While all the legitimate vendors of vape juices are selling properly tested and safe products the real risks come from the black market.

Vaping is simply a process that involves heating a liquid and inhaling the fumes. The problem is that liquid could contain anything from arsenic to liquid dog shite. One case I heard about was of a kid that was given a vape that contained liquid Spice.

I think there needs to be a lot more targeting of the dangers of black market vapes.

 

[zouzounaki]

Since 100% nicotine is classed a poison I think it unlikely that vaping higher levels of it won't come with an increased risk of harmful effects

you might think that, but in the amounts we are talking about it isn’t right.

 

[ZT]

you might think that, but in the amounts we are talking about it isn’t right.

Correct 100% of a lot of things are lethal that are therapeutic in lower amounts

like caffeine

or Jim Carey

 

[MarylinC37]

you might think that, but in the amounts we are talking about it isn’t right.

I'm just curious as to why you seem to have this innate fear against anything critical that gets said about nicotine.

It dosn't take a huge number of brain cells to figure out that the more poison you add to a liquid the closer you get to the more harmful levels. Since you can't say for sure what is in illegal vapes how can you be sure that the amount in them is safe, not to mention all the other harmful ingredients they may also contain? Then of course if a vape from an illegal source says 5% nicotine on the box does that mean people should trust that to be true.

 

[Simon G]

The quote was actually "At least 95% safer" from the studies that were done. It could well be 98 or 99% safer.

That doesn't mean that out of 100 people 4 or 5 might die from it. It's means the potential damage of breathing e-liquid into your lungs, might do 4% damage, rather than 100% damage.

So vaping for 50 years might have the potential to damage your lungs as much as smoking for 2 years, which really is negligible. That's the difference people need to realise. If you smoked for 5 years, you could vape for the next 100 and that's still only like smoking for 10 years in total. Given the fact I smoked for 30 it's really not even worth thinking about.

It's also been proven that inhaling e-liquid is less harmful than breathing in the air while stood next to a busy city road... and almost certainly stood next to a bonfire and many other things we don't even think about.

I expect riding in a massive group of 2-stroke scooters once a year is the equivalent of vaping for 20 years.

If it worries anyone, don't vape, wear a mask at all times and maybe live on top of a mountain or something.

 

[Simon G]

nic strength has no bearing on the “level of safety” as you put it. 50mg liquid is no more harmful as a thing in itself than 20, or 10. unless people are drinking it.

Indeed, I don't think Juul killed anyone with their pods. In fact the reason they were so successful was that 50mg was a really good strength to get people off smoking. ... and because a puff or two would get you your nic fix they were pretty economical.

The only problem with those levels of nicotine is that it makes switching to anything else with a lower nicotine level pretty difficult once you get used to it.

 

[Simon G]

i don’t think that was the fringes, many of the vape shoes in this city were plastered with that kind of stuff until a few years ago, at which point they started to become full of disposables.

Not only that but when I (and you?) first started vaping there was very little choice for MTL tanks, it was all 3x cell mods, drippers and cloud tanks. There was very little kit that was suitable for people that were looking for a 'smoking-like' experience.

Just trying to find 50/50 liquid in 12 or 18 was hard enough, I had to start a bloody thread because there was very little choice.

Large parts of the industry then had totally lost sight of helping people to stop smoking, like you say they were trying to sell a lifestyle and were encouraging non-smokers to start vaping even then. It's the main reason I don't trust them now and why I get so annoyed seeing it all again in a different guise.

 

[Rickster]