Vaping in Oz

[Richard Winter]

it seems to be mostly about teenagers puffing illicit disposables.

As with a lot of these articles, they seem hell bent on focusing on our beloved teens but to be honest they haven't really got much else to get their teeth into. Let's be honest, if you look at the hard facts between the dangers of smoking vs vaping then the facts and evidence speak for themselves.

I find it very frustrating that a country can ban something that adults want and use which is saving billions of pounds in health costs and saving millions of lives on the grounds that underage kids are trying it.

Just as well they dont use the same principles when it comes to kids smoking, kids drinking alcohol etc, you dont hear these being banned across the board to save our poor children.

 

[zouzounaki]

As with a lot of these articles, they seem hell bent on focusing on our beloved teens but to be honest they haven't really got much else to get their teeth into. Let's be honest, if you look at the hard facts between the dangers of smoking vs vaping then the facts and evidence speak for themselves.

I find it very frustrating that a country can ban something that adults want and use which is saving billions of pounds in health costs and saving millions of lives on the grounds that underage kids are trying it.

Just as well they dont use the same principles when it comes to kids smoking, kids drinking alcohol etc, you dont hear these being banned across the board to save our poor children.

but in another thread we agreed that the uk will be effectively banning tobacco if they follow the urgent recommendations in the khan review. i think new zealand have already started that too. i think in many western countries tobacco will slowly but surely end up banned.

but the thing with vapes is that it’s much easier for them to do this kind of shit with something that is new. trying to ban alcohol in the uk would result in riots. remember even the initial reaction to the smoking ban in the early 2000s.

 

[Tazz]

the thing is though, that here where as you say. it’s relatively easy to buy nic (nic shots available at most vape shops) the teenage disposable epidemic is still a problem. for you it may be a bigger problem in that it gives the temperance society types ammunition for articles like that posted above. here it’s a bit different, as the gov broadly support vaping but it’s almost like the vape industry is intent on inflicting damage on itself.

Yeah I get what you are saying. I wish here was like elsewhere like NZ and the UK. I met a guy recently who, my age, got a black market vape because he couldn't get a Dr script. He got something horrid that had him go to hospital as it damaged his asophagus. If we just had decent laws here allowing people to buy good known brands this type of thing would be rare, but unfortunately its common and the media jump on it.
Sucks.

 

[Tazz]

The same propagandists are busy in the UK using the ubiquitous "...think of the children....." BS, slating the colourful cartoonish ads used by the '...couldn't give a fuck...' juice industry. The old Fabian tip-toe of death by a thousand cuts is alive and well in the Brit media who push the agenda of those determined to reduce the industry to menthol and tobacco sealed systems which will eventually be all that is available from the fag companies. Pessimistic.....yup, cynical even...yup, but it is happening before our very eyes. Who would ever have thought they could have stamped out the industry to the extent they have in the US? but they have and it is coming here, they will not let us become the cause around which the wagons of defiance can circle.
My advice? get busy building, get busy mixing and get busy planning to have your own independent supply, although it's easier for old farts like me who already have one foot in the grave.

Yes, I have some US vaping friends. Its near as crazy here as it is there. Some places cant buy there any flavours other than tobacco ones! They're mad! The US was the Smoke capital of the world, now they are doing everything to turn people off of vaping to give up cigs.
Its utter BS. I think this and that about it all, have ideas, but in then I'm dumbfounded. It has to be $, nothing else makes sense.

 

[Richard Winter]

but in another thread we agreed that the uk will be effectively banning tobacco if they follow the urgent recommendations in the khan review. i think new zealand have already started that too. i think in many western countries tobacco will slowly but surely end up banned.

but the thing with vapes is that it’s much easier for them to do this kind of shit with something that is new. trying to ban alcohol in the uk would result in riots. remember even the initial reaction to the smoking ban in the early 2000s.

I was making the point that I dont know of any other product that comes under fire with governments implementing bans on the grounds that underage kids are using them. That's why we have age restriction laws.

I was using smoking and alcohol as an example. Equally one can say the same for glue. There was a pandemic of glue sniffing in kids years ago, I didnt see any government banning glue because of it. The same for adult films, they dont ban the films for everyone, they put age restrictions on them.

Vaping should be no different. We have age restrictions on this also so why all the BS about banning flavours etc. Its a limp excuse and a smoke screen to say its enticing kids. If vaping wasnt around our kids would be smoking.

The nicotine restrictions are a joke too. We know that nicotine is not that addictive in vaping. Again if any government is truly worried about this then why continue having lozenges and gums and sprays and why continue using nicotine in cigarettes.

I know the answers to the points I've made, I'm just stating the fact that when these governments say they are concerned about the potential harm vaping MAY do to our children, its utter bollocks.

 

[zouzounaki]

I was making the point that I dont know of any other product that comes under fire with governments implementing bans on the grounds that underage kids are using them. That's why we have age restriction laws.

I was using smoking and alcohol as an example. Equally one can say the same for glue. There was a pandemic of glue sniffing in kids years ago, I didnt see any government banning glue because of it. The same for adult films, they dont ban the films for everyone, they put age restrictions on them.

Vaping should be no different. We have age restrictions on this also so why all the BS about banning flavours etc. Its a limp excuse and a smoke screen to say its enticing kids. If vaping wasnt around our kids would be smoking.

The nicotine restrictions are a joke too. We know that nicotine is not that addictive in vaping. Again if any government is truly worried about this then why continue having lozenges and gums and sprays and why continue using nicotine in cigarettes.

I know the answers to the points I've made, I'm just stating the fact that when these governments say they are concerned about the potential harm vaping MAY do to our children, its utter bollocks.

i think you are seeing it from a skewed perspective. confirmation bias. when buzzing glue was popular in the 80s there was a big campaign to enforce the age limit. nicotine lozenges and sprays don’t come in blue slushy candy floss flavour in boxes with cartoons on them that look like something you would buy at a circus.

whether or not governments have shit policies around something it’s perfectly valid for them to be, at the same time, concerned about things that might harm youngsters.

 

[Richard Winter]

i think you are seeing it from a skewed perspective. confirmation bias. when buzzing glue was popular in the 80s there was a big campaign to enforce the age limit. nicotine lozenges and sprays don’t come in blue slushy candy floss flavour in boxes with cartoons on them that look like something you would buy at a circus.

whether or not governments have shit policies around something it’s perfectly valid for them to be, at the same time, concerned about things that might harm youngsters.

I dont see how you've come to that conclusion. I'm looking at the whole vaping scene as a whole. If as you say...... boxes with cartoons on them, then put a restriction on the packaging exactly the same as they did with the cigarettes, not ban them completely.

Of course I may be missing the fact that you are anti vaping.

 

[andipandi]

Yes, I have some US vaping friends. Its near as crazy here as it is there. Some places cant buy there any flavours other than tobacco ones! They're mad! The US was the Smoke capital of the world, now they are doing everything to turn people off of vaping to give up cigs.
Its utter BS. I think this and that about it all, have ideas, but in then I'm dumbfounded. It has to be $, nothing else makes sense.

It is. In the USA it's all about the tobacco master settlement agreement, money paid yearly by tobacco companies, based on sales, to states, money that was meant to be used to cover the costs of smoking-related illnesses and fund harm reduction/ stop smoking , but has mostly been used to fill state budget black holes/ spent elsewhere. The more people smoke the more states receive annually. Vaping blew that model up, which is why there is such fervor to demonise/ ban vaping/ tax it out of existence.

 

[zouzounaki]

I dont see how you've come to that conclusion. I'm looking at the whole vaping scene as a whole. If as you say...... boxes with cartoons on them, then put a restriction on the packaging exactly the same as they did with the cigarettes, not ban them completely.

Of course I may be missing the fact that you are anti vaping.

you don’t see how i’ve come to the conclusion that it is valid for governments to have concerns about the safety of children and youngsters?

 

[Richard Winter]

Maybe you ought to re-read the thread with both eyes open and not look for points that people say that arnt there.
Of course governments need to be concerned about the safety of our children, I didnt say to the contrary.