What's going on with the ELiquid Market?

[Phil M]

It isn’t really the same process. 88vape, LiQuid, £1 eliquid etc are all white label liquids. They are produced on a massive scale in a fully automated industrial manner in huge quantities thereby reducing the overheads massively. They also tend to be relatively simple recipes involving a single flavour or perhaps two.

Most of the juice manufacturers in the UK are very small companies, often one man operations where this is their livelihood.

While they have automation on some level, a lot of the processes post TPD have to be done manually, which is a slow process.

Get in touch with a local producer and I suspect they would be more than happy to show you their set up and the processes that they have to go through to get a legal 10ml bottle from recipe to sale and you can see how much time and work goes into it.

So wouldn’t it be fair to expect it To be 2 maybe 3 times more expensive? But 5 times?! Give over

 

[ZT]

I dont personally see a problem with a separate pricing structure for MTL or shortfills or High VG to be honest.

surely its all subjective ?

Shortfills theoretically i can see why they should be cheaper .. they take more work for the end user and are generally (not always) limited to low MG strength - and require a nic shot - thats not a dig .. just a thing .. nothing wrong with it.

High VG juices are slightly cheaper to produce (VG is generally cheaper than PG, and nic strengths are for the main part low - so less nicotine) and high VG juices (and there are some very finely crafted ones - this is not a dig .. some are superb and make me wish there were 50/50 higher PG versions {looking at your tabac ranges here @Lee } ) - but in the main part the flavours tend to be a little less avant guard then a lot of higher PG ones so again .. I can see why they would be cheaper.

higher PG juices tend to be for MTL enthusiasts .. who use atomisers that can really show up the layers and effort in a creation - again .. I see no reason why they shouldn't be more if the creator wishes it to be so. especially as the opposite of the above is true .. higher MG .. more PG etc

you can get a genuine harley part (or if my mates to be believed a non genuine one that is often better made for cheaper) - generally harley buyers will buy the genuine article though just because it is .. its their choice.

at the end of the day - its up to no one to dictate what people charge for their products - or the choice of those wishing to purchase them - expensive or cheap

 

[eightbitraptor]

The basic premise is the same regardless of whether it suits your arguments not , even if more work goes in I would doubt very much it’s the equivalent of five times more work, you should try and be less condescending in your attitude to others and then possibly your point would be better received.

I personally just don’t buy it, I’m more than happy with what I make myself and am happy to just leave it at that but I do think if the ”better” products were slightly more affordable then it would possibly encourage more people to stop smoking, Cos let’s be honest most of the cheap liquids are rank

Did you not read the post you quoted. I have tried it. I’ve been diying for getting on 2 and a half years.

And I don’t honestly think I’ve been particularly condescending. Aside from a little snark. Which I apologised for.

 

[JustDave]

So wouldn’t it be fair to expect it To be 2 maybe 3 times more expensive? But 5 times?! Give over

It seems excessive when put like that, but as an example, you can buy a pair of scissors in Poundland or a pair from a craft shop. They both technically cut but one will do it better than the other for considerably more than 5x the amount.

I would be willing to wager that in a blind taste test, I could tell you the difference between a £1 and £5 every day of the week.

I am not saying that every “expensive” juice is great, nor am I saying there is anything wrong with cheaper juice. To me there is enough of a difference to justify the cost and I am happy with that. If you are happy with a cheaper option then that is great. As always, if you feel something is too pricey, vote with your wallet.

 

[Nick0steam]

I dont personally see a problem with a separate pricing structure for MTL or shortfills or High VG to be honest.

surely its all subjective ?

Shortfills theoretically i can see why they should be cheaper .. they take more work for the end user and are generally (not always) limited to low MG strength - and require a nic shot - thats not a dig .. just a thing .. nothing wrong with it.

High VG juices are slightly cheaper to produce (VG is generally cheaper than PG, and nic strengths are for the main part low - so less nicotine) and high VG juices (and there are some very finely crafted ones - this is not a dig .. some are superb and make me wish there were 50/50 higher PG versions {looking at your tabac ranges here @Lee } ) - but in the main part the flavours tend to be a little less avant guard then a lot of higher PG ones so again .. I can see why they would be cheaper.

higher PG juices tend to be for MTL enthusiasts .. who use atomisers that can really show up the layers and effort in a creation - again .. I see no reason why they shouldn't be more if the creator wishes it to be so. especially as the opposite of the above is true .. higher MG .. more PG etc

you can get a genuine harley part (or if my mates to be believed a non genuine one that is often better made for cheaper) - generally harley buyers will buy the genuine article though just because it is .. its their choice.

at the end of the day - its up to no one to dictate what people charge for their products - or the choice of those wishing to purchase them - expensive or cheap

My mate had a Harley it got nicked in Southport, he now has a triumph Thunderbird , nobody gives it a second glance as it's not a harley, branding is everything.

 

[eightbitraptor]

But this thread was started on the content that most new juices are now shit. Hence the title of the thread. So you guys paying good money for premium juice are getting Low quality. I tell you what juice vendors start charging £9.99 for 10ml this forum is a fucking gold mine for you.

Actually I think this is a fair point. Most new juices you’d find in a B&M are shit regardless of price imo.

I’d wager that the folks defending premium juices all have a collection of examples in their head (I know I do) and I’d also wager that all of these examples are all from juice manufacturers that are certainly not new, and in most cases can’t be bought in B&M’s anyway.

Ie. Small local producers that have been refining the same handful of quality recipes for years. Who’ve fought through the TPD rather than springing up afterwards to milk consumers but don’t have the distribution deals and marketing budgets that the larger manufacturers do.

 

[ZT]

My mate had a Harley it got nicked in Southport, he now has a triumph Thunderbird , nobody gives it a second glance as it's not a harley, branding is everything.

Its not everything - but it does matter to a business. Of course it does

I totally get where you are coming from and respect it .. you can make your own juice and you are happy with it - I applaud that.

not everyone can or wants to though .. and some people like brands.

Im an apple fan boy (i know right stone me now! closed system! the man! stick with the google underdogs! they would NEVER sell you personal info!) - i jest but it just is - my lad is very keen on certain makes of guitar - and you know what .. they aint the freaking cheap ones!

some women are happy to buy a new pair of primary or new look shoes every week .. some spend hundreds on one pair. some (my preference) just wear some german army boots from the local Army surplus and just get on with it.

its just how the world works.

even as a smoker - some ppl would buy rothmans royals .. and not care about the taste or the tobacco falling out the end before you lit it .. some ppl wanted marlboro or bunsen and hedgehogs - or even sobranie.

its life

 

[Simon G]

I never suggested it was quick and easy, my point is that the current price for some of the liquids is to high, and if we’re honest the majority of people arguing that it isn’t are MTL, less liquid less expense per week. To be honest I’ve only commented because it’s irritating and uncalled for to make people feel like they’re borderline retarded for having an opinion that isn’t the same as yours

Making people feel 'borderline retarded' ? ...... fine, I'll say nothing else. There's enough people in this thread making themselves look silly enough without me having to help with that.

 

[Phil M]

It seems excessive when put like that, but as an example, you can buy a pair of scissors in Poundland or a pair from a craft shop. They both technically cut but one will do it better than the other for considerably more than 5x the amount.

I would be willing to wager that in a blind taste test, I could tell you the difference between a £1 and £5 every day of the week.

I am not saying that every “expensive” juice is great, nor am I saying there is anything wrong with cheaper juice. To me there is enough of a difference to justify the cost and I am happy with that. If you are happy with a cheaper option then that is great. As always, if you feel something is too pricey, vote with your wallet.

I do vote with my wallet, I won’t pay the ridiculous prices, I could give another example but to be honest it would be pointless, you are firm in your opinion and good for you, I just can’t see where the extra expense comes in

 

[eightbitraptor]

Im an apple fan boy (i know right stone me now! closed system! the man! stick with the google underdogs! they would NEVER sell you personal info!)

Oh Jesus. No. Don’t wake the trolls again. This is turning into potv’s answer to Godwin’s Law