What's going on with the ELiquid Market?

[JustDave]

I have no intention to criticize anybody for paying inflated prices for an average product, I am guilty too, it's marketing and sales, I just think that £3.99 is too fucking expensive for 10ml of juice no matter what fucking "development" went into it, development? What? oh that tastes good let's make that, and screw and exploit the idiots giving up smoking. Development is just a justification/excuse for an easy rip off imo.

I think you are missing the point.

Firstly, the people who make quality liquid don’t do it out of the goodness of their hearts. It is a business. They have overheads and employees to pay.

Secondly, they have the equipment in their premises. I have seen the amount of money and care that juice makers spend trying to make their juice as clean as possible and stay ahead of any regulations that may be forthcoming and it goes into tens of thousands of pounds, if I am not underestimating.

Thirdly, development is a thing. Good manufacturers take time to create, test and then refine until they are satisfied and only then are they happy to send out testers to a few trusted people before they go to manufacture. Then there is the time and expense of testing/notification before it can be put to market.

While I don’t know the juice that you are talking about I would assume that it is a “white label” that is produced in vast quantities, by a huge operation, to a simple recipe thereby reducing the cost and allowing it to be sold at a low cost. To use an analogy made earlier, Fosters lager is made in 10,000 gallon batches and can thus be sold for 75p a can. A craft brewer might be making ten gallon batches and as such the overheads and time spent are much greater and can therefore justify a higher price even though it is the “same” ingredients.

My final point is that £3.99 for 10ml is actually cheap. When I started vaping in late 2012 a 10ml bottle of corner shop juice would be at least £5 and if I wanted a “premium” product I would be looking at quite a bit more. Of course devices then weren’t as thirsty as they are now, but it was still pricey, but still cheaper than fags.

If you are happy with what you vape then that is great, but to call out manufacturers for creating a flavour, brand and product as too expensive is a bit out of order. As with everything in life, if you can’t afford it then don’t buy it.

 

[Phil M]

I wonder if beer forums have this argument pop up with as much frequency as vaping forums do.

“Why should I pay £3 a bottle for this delicious craft produced real ale when I can get a 4 pack of Tesco value lager for £1.26?! Everyone who doesn’t buy value lager or brew their own in their bathtub must be an idiot”

I think the point is, it’s not necessary for it to be that expensive, it’s the same process whether you are making it to sell for a quid as it is to sell for a fiver

 

[eightbitraptor]

You do see I am standing up for vaping not attacking you ? You just made it into a personal thing about arguing with a person on the internet, why do that?

You aren’t standing up for vaping. You’re standing up for a very specific sort of vaping that matches your world view, claiming that people who buy expensive juice occasionally are brainwashed by marketing into buying a product that is no better than cheap alternatives.

I’m arguing that occasionally and with some manufacturers (not all) the cost is justified and that there are some really genuinely good premium juices out there.

You’re right about making it personal though, I was being snarky and that was impolite of me. Sorry.

 

[eightbitraptor]

I think the point is, it’s not necessary for it to be that expensive, it’s the same process whether you are making it to sell for a quid as it is to sell for a fiver

But it isn’t. Developing a complex recipe that works and tastes good takes months of testing individual flavours, experience, and experiments. I know, I’ve tried. And failed.

Anyone can shove 15% of ry4 Double in some vg and call it done.

 

[Phil M]

But it isn’t. Developing a complex recipe that works and tastes good takes months of testing individual flavours, experience, and experiments. I know, I’ve tried. And failed.

Anyone can shove 15% of ry4 Double in some vg and call it done.

The basic premise is the same regardless of whether it suits your arguments not , even if more work goes in I would doubt very much it’s the equivalent of five times more work, you should try and be less condescending in your attitude to others and then possibly your point would be better received.

I personally just don’t buy it, I’m more than happy with what I make myself and am happy to just leave it at that but I do think if the ”better” products were slightly more affordable then it would possibly encourage more people to stop smoking, Cos let’s be honest most of the cheap liquids are rank

 

[Nick0steam]

You aren’t standing up for vaping. You’re standing up for a very specific sort of vaping that matches your world view, claiming that people who buy expensive juice occasionally are brainwashed by marketing into buying a product that is no better than cheap alternatives.

I’m arguing that occasionally and with some manufacturers (not all) the cost is justified and that there are some really genuinely good premium juices out there.

You’re right about making it personal though, I was being snarky and that was impolite of me. Sorry.

No problem, but I am standing up for vaping and vapers, its only my opinion that I think £3.99 is a piss take for 10ml , and I seem to have drawn alot of hostility for my narrow minded view of overpriced juice, so ok you guys keep buying it and have a nice time doing so. I made my point and I stand by it . I respect all points raised here also please respect mine.

 

[Simon G]

Cos let’s be honest most of the cheap liquids are rank

.... exactly.

because it's cheap, quick and easy to make rank juice, if it was cheap, quick and easy to make good juice they'd do that instead wouldn't they? ... they don't make it rank on purpose.

 

[Nick0steam]

.... exactly.

because it's cheap, quick and easy to make rank juice, if it was cheap, quick and easy to make good juice they'd do that instead wouldn't they? ... they don't make it rank on purpose.

But this thread was started on the content that most new juices are now shit. Hence the title of the thread. So you guys paying good money for premium juice are getting Low quality. I tell you what juice vendors start charging £9.99 for 10ml this forum is a fucking gold mine for you.

 

[Phil M]

.... exactly.

because it's cheap, quick and easy to make rank juice, if it was cheap, quick and easy to make good juice they'd do that instead wouldn't they? ... they don't make it rank on purpose.

I never suggested it was quick and easy, my point is that the current price for some of the liquids is to high, and if we’re honest the majority of people arguing that it isn’t are MTL, less liquid less expense per week. To be honest I’ve only commented because it’s irritating and uncalled for to make people feel like they’re borderline retarded for having an opinion that isn’t the same as yours

 

[JustDave]

I think the point is, it’s not necessary for it to be that expensive, it’s the same process whether you are making it to sell for a quid as it is to sell for a fiver

It isn’t really the same process. 88vape, LiQuid, £1 eliquid etc are all white label liquids. They are produced on a massive scale in a fully automated industrial manner in huge quantities thereby reducing the overheads massively. They also tend to be relatively simple recipes involving a single flavour or perhaps two.

Most of the juice manufacturers in the UK are very small companies, often one man operations where this is their livelihood.

While they have automation on some level, a lot of the processes post TPD have to be done manually, which is a slow process.

Get in touch with a local producer and I suspect they would be more than happy to show you their set up and the processes that they have to go through to get a legal 10ml bottle from recipe to sale and you can see how much time and work goes into it.