MHRA regulation of electronic cigarettes announced

[Senor Stuff]

I'm just chuckling about the selective memory they all seem to have as can be seen by this report by ASH in March
http://www.ash.org.uk/media-room/pr...kers-but-use-among-young-people-is-negligible

 

[Numpty]

Can I ask you to stop vaping, drinking, eating and lock yourself in a dark room, with pumped oxygen into it. Nothing is 100% safe, and everytime you cross the road, you take a risk. The way I look at it, and you are correct, I am not a scientist, is that 4000 chemicals, many with known carcinogens, the liquid I vape has.......4!! Does it really take a rocket scientist to work out what must be safer.

You really are missing the point I think, I don't think informing everyone traffic is dangerous and the suggestion of oxygen enriched isolation is particularly helpful, what would help is if you could avoid pointless and asinine comments and grasp one very simple fact...

How do you know 100% the liquid you vape has only the 4 ingredients you want in it ?
Who is checking on your behalf ?
At which point did I suggests vaping wasn't many times safer than tobacco ?

As for the food regulation you mentioned, what a brilliant piece of regulation that was, I have been eating horse for god knows how long!!!

Yes we have all probably eaten some horse but yet again your knee jerk response has missed a few key points.
We only know about the horse meat because there was a system in place and checks were made, now take it nice and slow and think it through..
Without those regulations and checks in place we would have eaten a lot more horse and for an indefinite period of time, we know because people with the skills knowledge and equipment to test on our behalf have discovered it, without that system we would each need our own lab for DNA analysis.
These checks caused all this fuss yet horse has not killed anyone, it is a food, many people choose to eat it, the fuss is because people have the right to actually get what the ask and pay for, if I want, order and pay for beef that is what I should get, nothing more and nothing less and the fuss is more about money and the fact someone got very rich selling horse at beef prices, no one was in danger apart from the fact a lot of the horse meat was found to contain high levels of Ketamine, thank goodness someone was checking, oh hold up no , i'll go hide in a dark room !!!!

Are cigarettes regulated to the same level?? If they are, why are they still on sale.

Yes Cigarettes are regulated to the same or maybe even higher levels, every packet contains tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide levels on the pack and all tobacco product producers are licensed do you really think no one is checking ?
This may be why a Marlboro Red tastes different to a Silk Cut, we have a choice and if you want low tar low Nic you can have it much like we want from our juice, lets just be sure and have someone keep an eye and be ready to enforce the rules if someone gets sloppy...

Now if you are going on this regulation crusade, can I ask why you started smoking in the same place.

Silly question but just for you, peer pressure and so I could be as cools as my mates, and like most teenagers and maybe a few people here I couldn't see the big picture.
I really don't know if you see what I'm saying as a crusade or you're not completely familiar as to what a crusade is but let me help some more..
I am not demanding regulation, regulations are already being set in motion for vaping products whether we agree or not, I think the level of regulation is madness and imposing medicine levels of control is basically a ban and the death of choice as the cost of producing equipment to that standard would cost in the region of a million pounds and take 18 months to 2 years to complete, go check this link provided by @whipitup I think it will surprise you.
http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-mhra-kills-golden-goose.html
My point is regulation is coming, like it or not so lets try and consider food regs for this consumable as it will allow vaping to live and breath as we want it but could actually provide some benefits such as quality control and mean when you ask for 18mg VG that's what you get, you will for the first time ever know you have only the 4 ingredients you want and the levels of each have been verified, is that really so offensive?

I am happy with the choices of juice vendors I have made, because labelling, websites and correspondence with those people meet the guidelines set out by ECCA or ECITA. They are also passionate about what they do, and I believe them when they state its manufactured in sterile conditions, because they are passionate in what they do. I am sure if I asked them if I could visit to see my juice being made, the answer would be yes.

Interesting, I find it hard to fathom why it is that nice labels, nice website, speedy and helpful correspondence and passion for business leads you to totally believe these people are strictly following some guidelines you don't know in full and are still being formulated, and I guess because you assume you could visit and you assume you are qualified to test the juices awaiting dispatch and the fact the room was painted really nice and the floor was swept all was good ?

If I was uncomfortable with the way it was being made, I would mix it myself, no biggy, no great shakes, but your proposal is taking away my right to choose how I wish to deliver nicotine into my body. You and the government have no right to tell me what I can or cannot ingest into my body or how.

I would ask you to slow down, check you have not over nic'd and read my post again please, I want every one to have the nicotine exactly the way they want as long as it is within the safe limits we understand, I DO NOT WANT ANYONE'S RIGHTS TO VAPE TOUCHED IN ANY WAY, there I think you hear me now..
I want a system that give some level of guarantee people can vape exactly what they want, if they order 30 ml, 18 mg VG with no nasties, water based flavours the very 4 ingredients you spoke of earlier is what you get and someone with the right equipment and qualifications has taken a quick look.

As for bootleg Russian Vodka, yeah its available, but we have the relevant regulation for beer and other alcohol, right?!

If it wasn't for the regular and strict checks imposed on public houses you can be pretty sure a fair amount of under the counter spirits would be cut into what's up on the rack,
Then you completed my whole arguement for me , I thank you ...." but we have the relevant regulation for beer and other alcohol, right"?
So lets have similar for vaping, for the same reasons and get similar confidence that things are reasonably close to what's described...

Regulation is coming let's at least try to have one that is already in use, makes sense for the product, is cost effective for the Vendor and actually has some safety elements for the consumer, I can't understand why that is so provocative and get's me spoken to like I'm a Nazi !!

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

If people are going to get nasty with one another over this thing that the MHRA have released, I will close this thread.

We all have one common goal and to stand anything but united on protecting our right as adults to choose our method of nicotine intake is beneficial only to the people who want to take this away from us. To begin attacking one another or stooping so low that anyone is insulting another person because of a difference of opinion, is beyond acceptable on this forum.

Behave or shut up.

 

[Mawsley]

Compliance as it is won't work given the situation, as it stands it's voluntary or open to interpretation by people who have learned their mixing skills and knowledge off the Internet or by ear.
There needs to be a simple cost effective regulation where compliance is mandatory as in the food industry, it requires little cost and basic proof of understanding of hygiene and safety standards much as if you wanted to open a coffee shop whereby you receive the occasional visit from the local health and safety or hygiene department.
It also gives a point of contact for complaints and improper conduct by a vendor.

I think it is incredibly naive of you to think everyone will comply and adhere to any standards without clear guidelines and knowing some prat of an official will come check one day, like it or not peoples health is at stake here and it just might be you that gets a bad juice from the rouge fast buck pop up vender that is bound to appear now it is big news...

Your points so far seem to be more anti establishment than common sense and given your signature you value outright freedom for all above a few guides to check we are getting and injesting what we believe we are getting and injesting as we are not all chemists with home labs that can check to see what toxins or contaminants may be present in our juice...
I'm only suggesting basic food production regulation no more than is imposed on your tofu...

Regulation like the food industry?

The same food industry which sold horse burgers, loads meals with salt and pumps animals full of chemicals?

How about regulation like the banking industry? Or the expenses regulations for MPs?

Regulation doesn't work and is nothing more than an attempt to impose control over free choice. Uniform labeling, something which the Food industry has resolutely opposed and has failed to provide through self-regulation, still offers no guarantees over content.

Where can we get this confidence you seek regarding content of our vapes? Scientists. The scientists who have already investigated the contents, carried out research trials and published peer-reviewed results. That, for me, is good enough.

Laws, especially ill-considered ones bent on raising revenue for the government, are the very last things a country needs.

 

[Numpty]

If people are going to get nasty with one another over this thing that the MHRA have released, I will close this thread.

We all have one common goal and to stand anything but united on protecting our right as adults to choose our method of nicotine intake is beneficial only to the people who want to take this away from us. To begin attacking one another or stooping so low that anyone is insulting another person because of a difference of opinion, is beyond acceptable on this forum.

Behave or shut up.

As yet I have yet to see anything nasty or personal, there has been nothing more than strong debate and all comments have been no more than point and counterpoint,
I have only seen a few comments that were off point, potentially provocative or deliberately unhelpful and pointed them out in a clear and concise fashion.

Nothing here is personal attack, nothing here is personal, it is opinion and belief being discussed in a frank and adult way using example and reference when possible.

If you feel there has been a direct insult or anything that may be construed as such please point it out and I will edit out and immediately PM a personal apology.

 

[Merino-Teflon]

Without trying to be either emotive, nor patronisingly condescending (Take heed, freaks ), there are plenty of decent points being made.
I'll say very briefly, regulations do need to be in place, because they can go bad it doesn't mean that all regulations are bad.
Expect the government to step in in some way, the vaping community/manufacturers vendors should do their best to engage in the debate in a way that is smart and public enough to make it more our way than theirs.
Finally, don't listen to me, I was voted Most Unpopular in my birthing room at Victoria Hospital in Melbourne, which was harsh.

 

[Merino-Teflon]

Before anyone says anything, yes, I know regs are already there, but believe me, at some point they will change, best way is to try and keep everything in the vapour communities favour as much as possible.

 

[Numpty]

Regulation like the food industry?

The same food industry which sold horse burgers, loads meals with salt and pumps animals full of chemicals?

How about regulation like the banking industry? Or the expenses regulations for MPs?

Regulation doesn't work and is nothing more than an attempt to impose control over free choice. Uniform labeling, something which the Food industry has resolutely opposed and has failed to provide through self-regulation, still offers no guarantees over content.

Where can we get this confidence you seek regarding content of our vapes? Scientists. The scientists who have already investigated the contents, carried out research trials and published peer-reviewed results. That, for me, is good enough.

Laws, especially ill-considered ones bent on raising revenue for the government, are the very last things a country needs.

This is the point of this thread I believe, to look at what coming and see what are the options, regulation of some kind will definitely be imposed on e-cigs, I think the majority agree on that.
Medicine based regs are too heavy handed and totally the wrong option to achieve any health based goals, I think the majority agree on that.
The current path the regulators intend will crush e-cigs as a viable alternative to tobacco and potentially cost lives, I think the majority agree on that.

So what do we do ?
Let us try and steer things a little buy first accepting we will not prevent some degree of regulation on vaping, I totally agree what you say and believe most regulatory bodies are self serving hypocrites unfit for purpose.
I think the way forward is to give a little, agree in principle that some regulation is a good thing, decide what best fits the purpose and then help adapt, form or even maybe staff that regulatory body.

Going head to head with MP's and MEP's banging heads like to Bison isn't going to do anything other than ensure they get it their way.

What we do is put forward our own proposals based on something already in existence and try to steer things away from it's current course into madness.
Maybe I really just a total naive and overly hopeful person but if those insisting upon these regs could at least consider food level regulations managed or constructed to include ECITA ISE members in some way then things really might turn out workable..

We either suggest something better or fight and loose to what they propose as it's their ball, their pitch and their rules like it or not, foot stamping and total rejection and stock piling juice really isn't the long term answer.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

As yet I have yet to see anything nasty or personal, there has been nothing more than strong debate and all comments have been no more than point and counterpoint,
I have only seen a few comments that were off point, potentially provocative or deliberately unhelpful and pointed them out in a clear and concise fashion.

Nothing here is personal attack, nothing here is personal, it is opinion and belief being discussed in a frank and adult way using example and reference when possible.

If you feel there has been a direct insult or anything that may be construed as such please point it out and I will edit out and immediately PM a personal apology.

I didnt single you out and my statement goes for everyone who replies on this thread. Please dont single yourself out or assume I was speaking directly to you, if that were the case, I would have PMed you

 

[Merino-Teflon]

Okay, so my opinion, taking into account that I have been busy and have only skimmed the posts so I am not directing this at anyone in particular, and that I may miss a bunch of posts in the meantime:

Wishing this away as being three years down the line is redundant and helps nobody.

Putting a pox on all forms of external influence will just appear cranky and cultish, and selfish.

The MHRA are quite transparent, and should be treated affectionately like the simple-minded, money-grabbing windowlickers that they are, they are looking desperate already, no need to rub it in, it is just cruel, kinder just to treat their public statements with a tolerating dismissiveness backed by actual facts from real medical professionals, amongst other bodies and consumers.

Full-on anti-government tracts are for gun lobbyists in America, I am not adverse to a soupcon of anarchy, but let us deal with the reality of this particular situation.

Keep the debate public, don't patronise the general public, do not steam-roller the sceptics, the government is swayed by public opinion, it can be quite slutty that way, which is to our advantage.

Somebody sells the nic-free gear to minors, otherwise schools wouldn't ban them...do not let that be you, certainly, we are not the guardians of people's choices, but encouraging behaviour that could just even potentially lead to experiences to one of the most addictive drugs in any form is immoral, irresponsible, and you do not deserve to make a living in any arena, mini-tobacco giant.

I am a prince of a small African nation and my country is on the brink of economic disaster, please if you can help, pm me your bank account details.