Temp control vaping

[itssme]

IMO TC works as well as the user's capabilities allow. It is misunderstood by many and so tends to be used incorrectly, hence many a TC device receive an unjust negative appraisal.

 

[danb]

You're getting into a bit of word twisting there @danb
"... vapers are not safe using non-TC ..." this was the statement that is full of assumption. At no point did I contest the issues with dry hits. There's nothing in your post that I disagree with so it's confusing that you want to pick an argument with my post by changing what I am saying.

"... if you cap the temp lower than the temp at which your juice burns ..." This is true ... of TC and non-TC the same. My point is that TC in itself does not do this, the vaper does this ... and vapers have been doing this for years with tc before TC came along. We agree that the vaper who cannot do tc will find TC beneficial. However, the vaper who thinks that simply using TC will stop their juice burning will be disappointed and misguided for the simple reason that without knowing the burning point of your juice a vaper is unable to set the correct temp parameter. I am sure that once again we would agree on this. How then does the TC vaper do this? Exactly the same way we've been doing it for years, with manual tc.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your point, thanks for clarifying. For me it's much harder to stay in my sweet spot using power modes compared with TC modes. I find that kanthal builds get too hot if I chain vape or take too long of a draw, and sometimes I get dry hits. I could reduce my wattage manually, or I could let TC automatically reduce my wattage. That's how I see it, and I opt for automation.

I don't disagree with what you're saying here, but I think as an experienced kanthal vaper you are perhaps underestimating the difficulties people (like me) can have with it. If controlling and tuning your vape with kanthal is second nature, I can absolutely understand why TC has little to offer. I wish I could do it, but I can't (be bothered), so I use TC. Now that TC is second nature to me, I don't see any appeal in exploring kanthal in depth (I do have a couple of kayfuns on mechs, but they rarely make it into rotation). Equally, I undoubtedly underestimate how good kanthal can be...

I also think you have unrealistic expectations of TC. A device that can actually detect when your juice is burning? I can't imagine how that would work - what could possibly be measured to detect this? I know that every juice I have ever vaped starts to burn at around 230C, so I don't go above that - there's really not a lot of variation in that figure in my experience. If it's not putting out plenty of warm thick vapour in the 200-230C range, it's always because something is wrong with my wicking (I use 50/50 juice, I suspect higher VG needs higher temperature based on the higher boiling point, but I've not investigated that).

 

[Tubbyengineer]

by restricted i mean a lack of oompf

to be honest - ive only really just started playing around with it .. its getting a bit better, I may have to tap you up for some advice tho!

Im more than willing to admit it could be user error

If by lack of Ooomph you mean sort of cold, weak and flavourless then My guess would be wicking issues - it usually is. Once you've got a stable build in there that doesnt collapse, short out or jump ohms like a flea on a griddle then everything else is likely to be wicking.
Too much wick slows down the juice flow, so the coil gets hot quickly and throttles back without vapourising much juice. Best way to check if it's a wicking issue (especially with Herons) is to cover the airhole and take a couple of pulls to really wet the wick. If you get a decent vape for the first couple of draws then it goes cold again then you've got the answer...

Suggested Viewing & Reading - That bloody Nickel Microcoil tutorial should show you the Heron build and wicking, and take a read of the Wicking 101 post as well...

Once you get it right in the Heron you'll know why I like it...

 

[manabush]

ive actually got it working quite well in the cloudone tonight .. heron next .. what Ohm do you recommend for the heron ?

 

[Tubbyengineer]

ive actually got it working quite well in the cloudone tonight .. heron next .. what Ohm do you recommend for the heron ?

It's less a case of Ohms, more of stability, as long as you can get above about 0.11 ideally to 0.2, it depends what wire you're using. A compromise between coil size and resistance is usually the way to go. For NI200 Aim for 0.15 +/- 0.3...

 

[scrumpox]

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your point, thanks for clarifying. For me it's much harder to stay in my sweet spot using power modes compared with TC modes. I find that kanthal builds get too hot if I chain vape or take too long of a draw, and sometimes I get dry hits. I could reduce my wattage manually, or I could let TC automatically reduce my wattage. That's how I see it, and I opt for automation.

I don't disagree with what you're saying here, but I think as an experienced kanthal vaper you are perhaps underestimating the difficulties people (like me) can have with it. If controlling and tuning your vape with kanthal is second nature, I can absolutely understand why TC has little to offer. I wish I could do it, but I can't (be bothered), so I use TC. Now that TC is second nature to me, I don't see any appeal in exploring kanthal in depth (I do have a couple of kayfuns on mechs, but they rarely make it into rotation). Equally, I undoubtedly underestimate how good kanthal can be...

I also think you have unrealistic expectations of TC. A device that can actually detect when your juice is burning? I can't imagine how that would work - what could possibly be measured to detect this? I know that every juice I have ever vaped starts to burn at around 230C, so I don't go above that - there's really not a lot of variation in that figure in my experience. If it's not putting out plenty of warm thick vapour in the 200-230C range, it's always because something is wrong with my wicking (I use 50/50 juice, I suspect higher VG needs higher temperature based on the higher boiling point, but I've not investigated that).

Unrealistic expectations ... this is exactly what is bugging me! I question that every day. TC is sold primarily on the avoidance of dry hits, yet the real supporters of TC say that's a sideshow ... the real benefits are to be found in not burning your juice, extending coil and wick life etc. Those are the expectations I had and therefore the goals that I set.

I don't expect a device to know when a juice is burning, I expect to know the burning point of juice before making the setting. What I have found is that juices are variable, dependant on composition and flavourings and trust my luck that my favourite juices tend to start earlier than others. C'est la vie! I've been a keen student of wicking since I stopped using cigalikes about 18 months ago and for nearly all that time I've been vaping on kanthal coils. I've had to adapt my wicking for TC and become even more obsessive about checking wicks.

I've never bought into manufacturer's replacement coil heads, I went from Naturevape coils in Kanger tanks to rebuilding, and I've habitually dry burned and rewicked at least daily. I've never suffered from gunked up coils because I don't try to get the most out of a replacement head ... any singe or discolouration and the wicks are changed. Hence my goal for TC was to rewick less often. Unrealistic? I know the answer is wicking ... IME the answer is always either airflow or wicking.

 

[andysri]

Been reading this and it got me wanting to try the ni200 that's been lying in my big box of vape gear for months. So gave the toot a a wash out and chucked in a build 0.15 spaced coil filled up and put it on my Reuleaux. Not a bad wee vape if I'm honest but have a question. Been vaping at 450F and 40w and like I said not bad wee vape, but as soon as I try to turn it down to like 420F temperature protection kicks in. I thought the higher the temperature there would be more chance of protection kicking in not lower. Am I doing something wrong or am I mistaken?

 

[danb]

I expect to know the burning point of juice before making the setting. What I have found is that juices are variable, dependant on composition and flavourings and trust my luck that my favourite juices tend to start earlier than others.

Some juices will start browning around vapourisation temperature - particularly tobaccos and sweet creamy flavours. I tend to avoid those, so that's probably why I find the burning point consistent. There's nothing anyone can do about that other than developing flavourings with higher heat stability.

 

[danb]

as soon as I try to turn it down to like 420F temperature protection kicks in. I thought the higher the temperature there would be more chance of protection kicking in not lower. Am I doing something wrong or am I mistaken?

Less power is required to maintain a lower temperature. The lower the set temp, the faster the set temp is reached and the sooner and lower the wattage will drop to maintain it.

 

[scrumpox]

Some juices will start browning around vapourisation temperature - particularly tobaccos and sweet creamy flavours. I tend to avoid those, so that's probably why I find the burning point consistent. There's nothing anyone can do about that other than developing flavourings with higher heat stability.

...hmmm, so this gets thrown back at the juice manufacturers again ... that's effectively written off TC for me.