UK Gov To Ban Disposables?

[Mawsley]

Hi @Mawsley . I did read the whole thing this morning and thought it was a very well written and considered piece.

To me, vaping is just a tiny miniscule part in the grand scheme when it comes to our overal environmental impact and, as a vaper, seeing the truly obscene amount of disposable vapes that we are throwing away every day should shame us all. How can we support letting that continue? There surely must be better ways of achieving our aims than that.

I think this is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The environmental impact of disposables is indisputable, but the major part of that problem is and was driven by two amoral Chinese companies.

The work done by British firms over the last 18 months was laudable and should have set the way forward - and it’s shameful that the two trade bodies completely failed to pressure the two into action.

Research evidence is clear, disposables helped marginalised communities. We should be working towards environmentally sustainable products combined with better funded enforcement to hit illegal traders. The blunt force approach of a ban is never going to work.

My lad turned up at home yesterday, illegal vape in hand. This will continue with a ban. There won’t be collections for these products, they’ll just be lobbed. Prohibition never works.

 

[Mawsley]

That does sound like a tar with the same brush kinda statement...

I would agree that the manufacturers (main brands) of disposables have been irresponsible to a large degree, especially in lack of recycling schemes, and also marketing practices, and ignoring & fuelling the fire in what was inevitably gonna come...

Not to a large degree, the industry has been completely and totally responsible for Sunak’s proposals.

Manufacturers refused to answer my calls and emails. They refused to adapt product design. They refused to implement collection programmes.

Retailers should have known their obligations under the WEEE regulations. Those it didn’t apply to, along with those it did, should’ve been collecting spent devices as a matter of course. They didn’t. This is also completely on them.

UKVIA and IBVTA weren’t sleeping at the wheel - they were drunk on subscription fees and giving head in the car to ElfBar and Geek Vape while they drove vaping over a cliff.

A pox on all their houses.

 

[Mawsley]

They don't have the means manpower to enforce the current laws, by banning they are hoping we will not be flooded, it's pure hope.

This.

 

[Mawsley]

 

[MarylinC37]

I think this is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The environmental impact of disposables is indisputable, but the major part of that problem is and was driven by two amoral Chinese companies.

The work done by British firms over the last 18 months was laudable and should have set the way forward - and it’s shameful that the two trade bodies completely failed to pressure the two into action.

Research evidence is clear, disposables helped marginalised communities. We should be working towards environmentally sustainable products combined with better funded enforcement to hit illegal traders. The blunt force approach of a ban is never going to work.

My lad turned up at home yesterday, illegal vape in hand. This will continue with a ban. There won’t be collections for these products, they’ll just be lobbed. Prohibition never works.

I really don't understand why people are so surprised by how these companies behave. They are not charities. They're businesses who are there to make money. The largest corporates don't have to give a toss about environmental impact or behaving morally. They are just money making machines and let governments sort out the laws and the politics. If the Gov decides to ban something which closes one income stream these companies will just move on to the next thing where they can sniff out a profit.

People can shout and scream at theses companies until hell freezes over about all sorts of issues like recycling schemes and they won't lift a finger to help out. Why should they, and no-one has any power to make them.

So then your only option is to try to create recycling schemes by putting all the burden on retailers, which for many small businesses is simply far too costly and impractical. There are loads of pods and other reusable devices that keep things simple and accessable for people who need that.

How does it make us look when people can see the blatant insane waste of these things and then the vaping community ignores the insanity of it and opposes a ban?

I have never actively campaigned for a disposable ban but I flippin' well won't shed a single tear to see the back of them.

 

[Mawsley]

I really don't understand why people are so surprised by how these companies behave. They are not charities. They're businesses who are there to make money. The largest corporates don't have to give a toss about environmental impact or behaving morally.

Strategic planning.

Any board worth its salt anticipates the regulatory impact of its actions and attempts to mitigate negative impacts as much as possible.

What you are describing is not a ‘business’ philosophy, it’s a Chinese approach to overseas markets; hence the need for other companies and trade bodies to have acted off their own backs.

So then your only option is to try to create recycling schemes by putting all the burden on retailers, which for many small businesses is simply far too costly and impractical.

Then they don’t sell them and focus on other things.

This, combined with a licensing scheme would have solved 50% of the issues related to these products.

There are loads of pods and other reusable devices that keep things simple and accessable for people who need that.

Research says no. The evidence is that disposables worked best for the homeless, those with dexterity problems, the mentally challenged and those being treated for mental illness.

How does it make us look when people can see the blatant insane waste of these things and then the vaping community ignores the insanity of it and opposes a ban?

How does it look when we ignore smokers who can’t quit the way we did?

The main point remains, the ability for these devices to have next to no environmental impact is proven, the collection can be done for free by companies specialising in lithium recovery - it is happening now in select locations like B&M. The benefits to marginalised communities is an evidenced fact.

With a tweak of the law, this could be the future - a nuanced response based in research and best practise rather than an emotive gaslighting ‘omgenvironmentchildrens!’

 

[MarylinC37]

Strategic planning.

Any board worth its salt anticipates the regulatory impact of its actions and attempts to mitigate negative impacts as much as possible.

What you are describing is not a ‘business’ philosophy, it’s a Chinese approach to overseas markets; hence the need for other companies and trade bodies to have acted off their own backs.



Then they don’t sell them and focus on other things.

This, combined with a licensing scheme would have solved 50% of the issues related to these products.



Research says no. The evidence is that disposables worked best for the homeless, those with dexterity problems, the mentally challenged and those being treated for mental illness.



How does it look when we ignore smokers who can’t quit the way we did?

The main point remains, the ability for these devices to have next to no environmental impact is proven, the collection can be done for free by companies specialising in lithium recovery - it is happening now in select locations like B&M. The benefits to marginalised communities is an evidenced fact.

With a tweak of the law, this could be the future - a nuanced response based in research and best practise rather than an emotive gaslighting ‘omgenvironmentchildrens!’

This is why I don't want to get drawn into a big argument about it. I'm just an individual vaper with an opinion. I'm not convinced by these arguments but I'm not going to keep on arguing about it. People are free to agree or disagree with me.

 

[andipandi]

The evidence is that disposables worked best for the homeless, those with dexterity problems, the mentally challenged and those being treated for mental illness.

The government dont give a flying fuck about the homeless and rough sleepers being so, hence they certainly wont give a shit whether they can vape (or not). One particular homeless guy I know, he picks up all the dropped and expired D's, at all other time he's picking up fag butts. He's also buying Ds' when he has money, but he get robbed on at least a weekly basis, plus the local council remove his and many other rough sleepers belongings and trash it, that's assuming some other person hasn't nicked it or the lager louts (cant think of a better term) either set it on fire or piss on it all. The same bloke is also a schizophrenic, he cant even source his meds on a regular basis! A lovely country we live in. Sorry about the off topic rant.

 

[Toby iVapour]

Retailers should have known their obligations under the WEEE regulations. Those it didn’t apply to, along with those it did, should’ve been collecting spent devices as a matter of course. They didn’t. This is also completely on them.

I guess all I was trying to point out was that some retailers (such as ourselves) have been offering to take & recycle batteries for years, we have never actively promoted the use of disposables (in fact the opposite, highlighting the waste of resources and not being cost effective wherever possible), and encourage people to switch (or go back to) reusables.

I hear you on your other points though.

 

[vapesmarter]

unfortunately, @Mawsley is completely correct I hear people saying the boom years were 2014, 2015, 2016 when vaping was free from restrictions it might have been for the consumer but the last 4 years have been a cash cow for the industry the rise of the disposable has been a cash cow that kept on giving, from shop keepers to online stores the profits are huge for such a short life product.

but you will see those products now tumble in price a vendor can't dump them down the tip pallets and pallets millions of disposables will be pence to buy the flood that will hit the market as vendors try and dump stock will be a feeding frenzy for anyone who uses them the lines to dump stock will be vague I expect you will see huge amounts of these hitting the streets (pun intended) as the government bring in a law to ban them and hook on the new law to restrict flavors at the same time to just 4

the consumer as always will be the victim and the blame is with the industry I'm part of that as well even though I never sold them I am and many like me are tarred and feathered with the rest.

the market leaders and the trade bodies are accountable but no one will do anything about it.

edit

then we have the new cigarette increase in age thing that will not in any shape or form alter the number of smokers from today to in 4 years time, in fact, it gives a huge breathing space for big tobacco to make a fully approved pod type system to be sold in chemists to people that want to give the fags they peddled for years