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Vaping, the controversy, news, media, scaremongering debate

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I know... I don’t know? That’s the definition of a contradiction. So which is it?

“I know vaping had a negative effect on me” would also be considered a claim, not simply just an observation. It’s even less of an observation if your observation changed so quickly to “I don’t know if vaping caused my issues”. Again, which is it? And how could you possibly know either way if “nobody knows”. It’s also no longer a “personal fact” either if you then go on to contradict it immediately. Facts don’t change that quickly and easily, especially not personal ones. Yet more contradictions.

The simple facts is, you don’t know, but you decided to add 2+2 together, got 5, and claimed to know 5 was (and possibly wasn’t) the correct answer... Err, whut?

That’s no different than the sarcastic joke people make about causes of death, saying “100% of people who breath go on to die, therefore breathing causes death” when people make other false connections. It’s a logical fallacy. Correlation does not equal causation.

There’s a laundry list of reasons why you may have experienced the mild symptoms you described, many of them being more likely. One such likelihood is all your years of smoking finally caught up with you. Another being age. Why blame the thing you’ve been doing for 3 years with seemingly no issues? It quite possibly may be vaping. Could be an allergy you’ve developed. Wherever you source your DIY could well have changed where they are sourcing their stuff or made minor changes to ingredients. Could be any number of reason. Could be your easing symptoms are nothing more than coincidence. Blaming vaping is scaremongering, especially right now, and not exactly positive despite your claims to the contrary.

My knee started aching the other day while I was vaping. Do you think vaping did it or is it more likely to be the fact that I broke my kneecap and damage cartilage when I was younger, was also on my knees mortising a hinge at the time and the damage is catching up to me?

And this is just the tip of the iceberg but I think I’ve said enough. Others discrepancies in your post have been pointed out elsewhere.



Maybe if you took in what you wrote, the pitchfork wouldn’t have to came out. Sorry if you don’t like it but there’s been a fair few questionable posts in the last couple of months, from members here with no previous posts, and I’m getting more and more cynical as I get older.

There’s only so long people can keep using the “we don’t know the long term effects” argument before we start calling bullshit. When people have been vaping for over 10 years and there are over 40 million vapers world wide, with no confirmed issues linked to vaping responsibly made nic based e-liquid, it’s not even debatable that vaping as we know it is much safer than smoking at this point! A few cases of mild symptoms and some dubious connections to vaping is nothing to be alarmed about when thousands of people die every day from smoking related illnesses and diseases.

Nobody in the community has ever claimed it to be 100% safe. We’re not naive enough to expect it to be either. So I have no Idea where you got the notion from that “we” thought otherwise. That’s all you. Nothing in life is inherently safe, absolutely nothing. Drinking too much water will kill you... yet here you are using the same tired old arguments as the vaping naysayers and looking for some confirmation bias to boot... Strange.

And /rant... back on with my day I go, and I’ll be standing by my claim of “nonsense” if you don’t mind.

I appreciate your take on my post and I understand with any addiction, especially addiction replacement, people want a safer option, a best of both worlds, and I appreciate your clinging on and fighting for vaping to be safe, and I hope it turns out it is, this isn't a patronising statement, I genuinely want to continue vaping too! Yes the "we don't know the long term effects" statement is getting old indeed, unfortunately, it's true, hence why used so much. As said I expected a defensive take (maybe not as much as yours) but alas this doesn't concern me, hence why I posted, as I felt like documenting my issues which was originally going to be an offline word document, but figured make it online as others may find useful, there are 100's and 1000's of vapers in the UK, millions even, but not all of us are naive enough to insist it's safe, and beat down every negative like your protecting a child, your protecting an addiction, an untested one, if you don't like my post and my progress, simply move on, simple. There's no hard feelings here and to a degree I welcome your criticism as another side of the coin is what makes the world a more knowledgable varied place to live in. But as said, if this thread is making you angry and is a waste of your time, then may be better to dodge it completely.

Moving on...

Today is the 7th day of being vape free, if you recall I was on an 18mg 50/50 mix. I dropped the vape completely and started using nicotine patches (14mg) to aid in the quitting somewhat. On day 3 my pins and needles went coompletely for a couple of days, and my vision improved. Day 7 my vision has still improved possibly verifying the opticians extreme dry eye diagnosis. However yesterday the pins and needles returned and have stayed for 48 hours. Chest and breathing has improved slightly, although I am not monitoring this effectively right now due to being on the backend of the flu. I'll be giving it another week to monitor this. The good news? I can deduct VG and PG as a cause for the tingles, many experts say 3-4 days of smoking/vaping for many symptoms to dwindle, the fact their back makes me think PG/VG wasn't the issue here. My GP was looking at the nicotine as being a cause, as some posted here the 18mg chain vape was excessive, and now with 14mg patches and the nic quickmist spray, I am still taking in nicotine at good level which makes me think the tingles are being caused by nicotine alone.

Today I have binned the patches and only using the quickmist spray which weighs in at a small 1mg per spray. I'll use this exclusively for another week and then post back, if things don't change, the spray will be binned and I'll monitor for another week, if the issues remain, we can safely say this is NOT vape related and the whole post is a huge waste of time, if they expire completely, then it's obviously a Nicotine issue and if I choose to continue vaping I'll need to find that sweet spot. I have purposely binned all my pre made juice so I can't even start vaping for 2 days after deciding to (steep time) which gives me a couple of days to assess my choices.

When I quit smoking I was bringing up black nasty mucus for days after quitting (3 days onwards), there has been minimal phlegm in quitting vaping which is interesting, I do have the back end of the flu so slightly phlegmy anyways, but nothing out the ordinary, no massive vape chunks of nasty! Compared to when I quit the ciggs, this is pretty significent in comparison.
 
I appreciate your take on my post and I understand with any addiction, especially addiction replacement, people want a safer option, a best of both worlds, and I appreciate your clinging on and fighting for vaping to be safe, and I hope it turns out it is, this isn't a patronising statement, I genuinely want to continue vaping too! Yes the "we don't know the long term effects" statement is getting old indeed, unfortunately, it's true, hence why used so much. As said I expected a defensive take (maybe not as much as yours) but alas this doesn't concern me, hence why I posted, as I felt like documenting my issues which was originally going to be an offline word document, but figured make it online as others may find useful, there are 100's and 1000's of vapers in the UK, millions even, but not all of us are naive enough to insist it's safe, and beat down every negative like your protecting a child, your protecting an addiction, an untested one, if you don't like my post and my progress, simply move on, simple. There's no hard feelings here and to a degree I welcome your criticism as another side of the coin is what makes the world a more knowledgable varied place to live in. But as said, if this thread is making you angry and is a waste of your time, then may be better to dodge it completely.

Moving on...

Today is the 7th day of being vape free, if you recall I was on an 18mg 50/50 mix. I dropped the vape completely and started using nicotine patches (14mg) to aid in the quitting somewhat. On day 3 my pins and needles went coompletely for a couple of days, and my vision improved. Day 7 my vision has still improved possibly verifying the opticians extreme dry eye diagnosis. However yesterday the pins and needles returned and have stayed for 48 hours. Chest and breathing has improved slightly, although I am not monitoring this effectively right now due to being on the backend of the flu. I'll be giving it another week to monitor this. The good news? I can deduct VG and PG as a cause for the tingles, many experts say 3-4 days of smoking/vaping for many symptoms to dwindle, the fact their back makes me think PG/VG wasn't the issue here. My GP was looking at the nicotine as being a cause, as some posted here the 18mg chain vape was excessive, and now with 14mg patches and the nic quickmist spray, I am still taking in nicotine at good level which makes me think the tingles are being caused by nicotine alone.

Today I have binned the patches and only using the quickmist spray which weighs in at a small 1mg per spray. I'll use this exclusively for another week and then post back, if things don't change, the spray will be binned and I'll monitor for another week, if the issues remain, we can safely say this is NOT vape related and the whole post is a huge waste of time, if they expire completely, then it's obviously a Nicotine issue and if I choose to continue vaping I'll need to find that sweet spot. I have purposely binned all my pre made juice so I can't even start vaping for 2 days after deciding to (steep time) which gives me a couple of days to assess my choices.

No worries bud. I didn’t mean anything malicious by it. We’ve have had a fair few posts like this since this US madness started and it’s been building up in me to snap at a similar post. Just bad timing for it to have been targeted at you specifically. I lost both my Grandmothers this year due to confirmed smoking related diseases so I’ve been wound like a coiled spring for a while. Witnesses the US stuff from afar, how long it’s dragged out and the crazy things that are being said, I’ve been getting more furious by the day at all the misinformation. If your story is legit and intentions good then I apologise fully. Not that I thought otherwise but I was extremely dubious.

Sudden onset of allergies can happen though so maybe it is nicotine? Hope you get to the bottom of it dude.
 
So why did I stop? if I loved it so much? About 6 months ago I noticed my eye-sight was getting pretty squiffy, had an eye test, no issues. Couple of months later I developed pins and needles in both feet and hands (constantly) after a week or so this spread to my upper arms and face! Went to the doctors for a full MOT and thorough blood tests and ECG. Heart is fine, bloods perfect, doctors baffled. Went back to the Opticians, and while I drink a ton of water, they eventually discovered I had severe Dry-Eye, causing blurred vision. I upped my water in-take and used drops nothing changed. Last week worry got the better of me and I quit vaping. It IS just as hard as quitting Ciggs, I'm using patches and mist spray from Nicorette, but within 3 days the pins and needles have completely vanished. A few more days and my vision is improving massively.

This is just my observations, and is by no means another scaremonger post, I am interested if any fellow Vapers have experienced similar? I have been chain vaping over 3 years and these symptoms only appeared in the 3rd year, whats crazy is quitting vaping has totally cleared everything up (eyes still not 100%). I was convinced I had diabetes as many of those symptoms reflect that issue, but tests came back clean. My ingredients never changed during vaping, same Nic, same PG/VG direct from TAC store online, same flavour. Same mod same tank, I used 1.8ohm coils and they were always genuine as bought direct from Aspire.

You developed these latest symptoms around 6 months ago, after having chain vaped your own 18mg mix for 3 years, having been told that the tobacco laws (which went into legislation in 2016 with a years grace, meaning they actually came into force in 2017) would prevent you from getting 18mg e-liquid and you would have to mix your own juice, yes?

4 and a half years ago, you were advised elsewhere that you might be intolerant to either PG or VG, or that the flavouring you are using might not agree with you, after your suffering side effects you attributed to vaping, having been vaping for 2 years (so that's over 6 1/2 years vaping to date) and had been mixing your own juice in exactly the same way for a while back then (in may 2015).

And yet, having been advised to look into PG/VG/flavouring intolerance, 4 and a half years ago, you just carried on using the same mix until you developed more side effects six months ago?

If only you had taken that advice back in the late spring of 2015, over 2 years after you started vaping and mixing your own juice, you might have isolated the ingredient that is causing your issues.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/health-problems-with-ecigg-advice.670881/
 
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OP I hope you get this sorted soon and you can get you’re health back. If it is vaping related then that’s a real shame. I hope it isn’t but if it is then I guess you’re just unlucky. No one can be 100% sure as to the effects of many things these days as we are all so different. People react to things the majority find benign all the time.

‘I would like to hope that the heated parts of this thread are due to being passionate about vaping and nothing personal. I am sure they are.

I think we all need to be a little cautious about being so polarised in our views at times. I guess this is indicative of the times in which we live. We are so often told that something is good or bad and are left with very little in between, seemingly removing the need for any discussion or debate on things.

I will be interested to see how your health goes over the next week. Keep us posted and take care.
 
Yup, I wish the OP all the best too.

It is my belief that there is a combination of issues at hand here. But I am not, of course a medical professional, so it's just my opinion.

I reckon the OP has an allergy or intolerance to either PG/VG and/or the flavouring he is using, which could explain the lump in the throat, the dry eyes etc, and perhaps too much nicotine is causing the pins and needles.

Keep us posted.
 
@EvoKazz I praise you for being so level headed given some of the rudeness and criticism you've received here, I don't think I would have remained so cool.

Might be worth picking up a home blood pressure test kit to use when you have pins and needles just to see if anything is happening at those times and to put your mind at rest. They are very reasonably priced these days, I have a Omron and find it to be accurate and easy to use (bit scary first time you use it though lol).

Hopefully you get to the bottom of this and your symptoms subside, all the best. ☺️
 
@EvoKazz
I'm a bit confused, you say here on Potv

I went off ciggs completely, and turned to vaping. I noticed an improvement in my overall health within a couple weeks, been vaping 4 years now.

But you've been a member on ecf, since 2012
Screenshot_20191117-222347.jpeg
 
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/health-problems-with-ecigg-advice.670881/

lock the thread, please

reason

we are not doctors if the op has effects from vaping the ruling is stop vaping

if the op has problems from taking medication the rule is the same consult a doctor

if the op has problems with driving a car the rule still stands don't drive

need I go on..........

I never expected anyone to solve my issues here, and a couple of folk have mis-read most of what I wrote originally regarding symptoms, that's ok, as I said it's more of a note of my journey, I am not asking anyone to stop vaping, I am not hating on vaping, just observations. I appreciate any suggestions, input, and criticism to a degree, but shouting for the thread to be locked doesn't contribute at all. If the thread upsets you so much you need it locked, as stated above, a good solution is to stay outside and not come in.

I've had all the tests, ECG, Complete Bloodworks, No Diabetes, all clean, doctor is baffled, I did mention my vaping habits but got the generic reply from him of "you should stop vaping that garbage as we don't know the long term effects" almost his word for word reply, when I stated the nicotine issue, he simply shrugged and said, it could be, instead he went down the route of prescribing me beta blockers as he thinks it could be anxiety related (and it could well be).

Regarding the above, nothing fishy at all, I'm humbled to be investigated and appreciate the lengths people will go to, to defend vaping, and again, I am not vape bashing, but I am unclear on what your trying to say? I joined a forum or 2 before I vaped to research? So I am what? A liar, a troll? Not sure how your minds working, but can assure you there's nothing fishy here. Already stated I have been vaping 3 - 4 years, if you require exact dates and times I'll try to indulge, I also stated there was an improvement in overall health, of course there was, I chain smoked analogues, vs vaping. Analogues made me feel like death some mornings. I'm not sure what your trying to put over really, if there's a point you have in your investigation, then maybe before accusing me of something, make the point clear? I can only presume you were bored this evening so went on a failed mission, no harm done.

I'll post back in a week with an update, if people don't care, simply don't post, if mods feel anything here is unacceptable by all means delete, I thought the OP would be informative and may be of use to someone, seems not, and that's also ok.
 
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