watchdog doing a section on ecigs tonighy bbc 8pm

[Leek]

As title says watchdog are doing a bit on ecigs tonight at 8pm, no more details yet but will be watching

 

[Gonloopy]

Bbc news asking for ccomments here's mine

I have real concerns about the announcement made today. I would like to highlight that the move towards ecigs is perhaps the biggest social movement we've seen in smoking habits for decades (if ever). There is merit in ensuring that the products that we buy are of a certain quality standard, but medicinal license is unnecessary. The cost of gaining such a license is so high that it will only be the large pharmaceutical/ tobacco firms can afford the license. Costs will rise, and one of the primary reasons for the social movement ( cheaper) will be lost. I also believe that one of the main arguments for this decision (that vaping a gateway to smoking )is ridiculous. Kids have smoked behind bike sheds for years. I would never encourage any child to take up smoking or vaping but know if a child was going to pick up one or the other that I would prefer it to be an ecig. Kids at the end of the day experiment.


Sent from my iPad

 

[AndyC1971]

Gonloopy, I personally think that the 'gateway' argument is both a red herring, and should not be responded to. The reason for this is its a no win argument. If we argue kids have always smoked and always will, and what is a better choice, it looks like we are endorsing/advocating the use of ecigs in under 18's, and giving the BS powers that be additional ammunition against us.

Our arguments have to be based purely on our experiences as adults, and we have plenty of ammunition to use.

 

[Gonloopy]

I take your point, but disagree (and first time I've admitted to this on the forum but I work at a relatively senior level within Public Health. ) Trust me this is one of the main issues that directors of public health are concerned about (as in gateway to / normalising smoking.) it is why they will push this through in 2016
My argument from within is that this is about risk reduction for ex smokers. However I am continuously told details of somebody somewhere seeing a kid walking down the street with an e- cig. And naturally they want to stop this.From a non vapers perspective they see that some ecigs are brightly coloured have sweet flavours and therefore vendors are deliberately targeting kids.

Non response for me is not an option ,it is only tackling fears and worries head on that we can move forward. Perhaps my choice of words could have been better but threw it out there pretty quickly. In my defence though , what I will say when i am talking to colleagues over a cup of coffee that have teenage kids and we are worrying as all parents of teenagers do , about what our kids are getting up to smoking drinking etc, I often say to them well if mine is trying a ciggy I hope it's an ecig. Invariably, no matter who, - I get a nod and wry smile ....


I should say at this point for the sake of my job all views expressed are my own and are in no way affiliated to my professional post

 

[Leek]

The thing that concerns me with age argument is that all uk vendors ive used state they sell to people over the age of 18. In the uk nicotine gum etc can legally be sold to 12 year olds. Does the mean a group of school kids can walk into their local supermarket and under this new legislation legally walk out with a cigalike in their hands?

Flawed argument and just a mask to conceal the desire to tax and control for profit.

 

[Gonloopy]

Err should've also removed my tag line working in public health

 

[Gonloopy]

The thing that concerns me with age argument is that all uk vendors ive used state they sell to people over the age of 18. In the uk nicotine gum etc can legally be sold to 12 year olds. Does the mean a group of school kids can walk into their local supermarket and under this new legislation legally walk out with a cigalike in their hands?

Flawed argument and just a mask to conceal the desire to tax and control for profit.

personally wouldn't disagree but that is what we are dealing with , so we need to have a formed cohesive argument. good to have a forum like this where we can debate it out between ourselves first

 

[steffijade]

I take your point, but disagree (and first time I've admitted to this on the forum but I work at a relatively senior level within Public Health. ) Trust me this is one of the main issues that directors of public health are concerned about (as in gateway to / normalising smoking.) it is why they will push this through in 2016
My argument from within is that this is about risk reduction for ex smokers. However I am continuously told details of somebody somewhere seeing a kid walking down the street with an e- cig. And naturally they want to stop this.From a non vapers perspective they see that some ecigs are brightly coloured have sweet flavours and therefore vendors are deliberately targeting kids.

Non response for me is not an option ,it is only tackling fears and worries head on that we can move forward. Perhaps my choice of words could have been better but threw it out there pretty quickly. In my defence though , what I will say when i am talking to colleagues over a cup of coffee that have teenage kids and we are worrying as all parents of teenagers do , about what our kids are getting up to smoking drinking etc, I often say to them well if mine is trying a ciggy I hope it's an ecig. Invariably, no matter who, - I get a nod and wry smile ....


I should say at this point for the sake of my job all views expressed are my own and are in no way affiliated to my professional post

Nobody really wants kids to take up smoking or vaping, but kids being what they are, they will experiment and vaping is the lesser of 2 'evils'.

If the government/health authorities were really that concerned about the possibility of kids smoking they'd have banned cigarettes by now. The sad truth is that the powers that be are more concerned with losing revenue income from banning cigarettes (and also the hammering they would take in the polls) than they are about the health of current smokers. Smokers are seen as expendable, acceptable casualties in the drive for revenue income and the fact that so many smokers have switched to vaping regardless of the various 'risks' they cite, just goes how well the products work, as is.

This tired old 'won't someone PLEASE think of the children' waffle is just emotional blackmail... the anti smoking lobby exploited (and I do mean exploited) it to great effect in their push for the smoking ban. It's kind of ironic that their tireless demonisation has pushed so many towards towards vaping.. that's a consequence that they couldn't foresee.

To me, the 'health nazis' feel cheated out of their total victory and are so annoyed that smokers are subverting their hard won demonisation, that they can't step back and see the bigger picture. If they stopped for a moment and realised that smokers are people too and just as deserving of care and compassion as anyone else then maybe they could see... but they seem to view smokers as some kind of underclass, unworthy of compassion and incapable of making choices for themselves.

They are just so drunk on their own sense of entitlement to dictate how people should live their lives, that any whiff that people are slipping from the controlling grasps makes them indignant with 'righteous' anger.

That's the real reason they'll keep banging on with this bull$hit gateway theory... they know that emotional blackmail is effective and they NEED to be in control.

 

[SouthernVaper]

all they have said is bullshit tbh.............to make it readily available der have a look around I think all garages in my area sell cig-a-likes aswell as the super markets. The age thing is also utter bull

 

[Gonloopy]

I agree it's bull, but the vaping community if we want to continue as we are, is going to have to be able to respond with a formed reasoned counter argument....