What's going on with the ELiquid Market?

[Chris K]

Excellent points made above by @PlumeBlu, @MrTeaTime et al.

Also noteworthy is that shortfill lines inherently incur far less costs to produce than larger format e-liquids did before TPD.

Don't forget that each liquid prior to TPD was available in multiple, pre-steeped nicotine strengths, each requiring careful quality testing and monitoring during the steeping process to ensure consistency (which is still the case for TPD compliant juices of course).

With shortfills, the barrier to entry has been lowered significantly without the need to invest time, effort and money in multiple batches of the same product, each with differing formulas depending on nicotine strength.

It seems that when you can bash out a new product cheaply in one big batch there is a lot less at stake if it's not up to scratch. The temptation is apparently there to just fling any old shit in a bottle and see if it sells with a tacky label on it.

Seeing this type of product absolutely flood the market is to be quite honest - heartbreaking.

There are so many excellent producers out there are seriously struggling to compete at the moment, run by people who actually care about their products and the industry as a whole, but finding them amongst all the shite is especially difficult, hence the recent increase we're seeing of people being disappointed with liquids etc.

Those are my thoughts, at least.

Exactly what I was trying to say, just mine came across abit more ranty and deranged!

It's become so hard for consumers to sort the decent liquid from the garbage, sadly the garbage currently seems overwhelming. Even retailers get the garbage pushed onto them now, suppose customers just need to select the good retailers who can resist the 150% mark up offered by awful products.

Must be even harder for good manufacturers like yourselves to get your products the recognition they deserve if they end up on shelves next to £9 120ml rubbish.

 

[Mr Ripple]

Lets not forget if you put a quality well made, well ballanced, great flavoured juice, through a shit tank it quite easily could taste shite.

 

[MrTeaTime]

With regards to juice producers I think it needs to be said that there is one who is a vendor on here who is masquerading as having TPD compliant juice, when in fact, they aren’t.....the thing is, the bottles look legit but are in fact NOT compliant, and the vendor even has an address that doesn’t exist....and this is a vendor that has been around for a couple of years, and have quite a few fans on the forum. So sometimes, whilst it’s easy to point the finger (and rightly so) it’s important tho remember that it’s not just a problem with some of these newer vendors that come to market

Please don’t ask me on this thread who it is, as it’s really not my place, and as they have been reported to the authorities already, so I’m guessing that there is already a process going on already to rectify this ((hopefully)


Another thing to consider is that this market is being driven by “us”

WE are demanding more for less, WE are demanding that producers do 100ml for £10 including 2 nic shots and free postage

Ultimately there needs to be a sea change within the community to stop this happening, these companies only thrive due to he demand. The old bollocks whereas we say that we used to smoke 20 Marlboros a day and there was thousands of chemicals in them, so what harm is a cheap juice gonna do? Is actually a valid one, and to be honest I don’t know as an industry how you guys are going to combat it....

 

[Mr Ripple]

With regards to juice producers I think it needs to be said that there is one who is a vendor on here who is masquerading as having TPD compliant juice, when in fact, they aren’t.....the thing is, the bottles look legit but are in fact NOT compliant, and the vendor even has an address that doesn’t exist....and this is a vendor that has been around for a couple of years, and have quite a few fans on the forum. So sometimes, whilst it’s easy to point the finger (and rightly so) it’s important tho remember that it’s not just a problem with some of these newer vendors that come to market

Please don’t ask me on this thread who it is, as it’s really not my place, and as they have been reported to the authorities already, so I’m guessing that there is already a process going on already to rectify this ((hopefully)


Another thing to consider is that this market is being driven by “us”

WE are demanding more for less, WE are demanding that producers do 100ml for £10 including 2 nic shots and free postage

Ultimately there needs to be a sea change within the community to stop this happening, these companies only thrive due to he demand. The old bollocks whereas we say that we used to smoke 20 Marlboros a day and there was thousands of chemicals in them, so what harm is a cheap juice gonna do? Is actually a valid one, and to be honest I don’t know as an industry how you guys are going to combat it....

I know there is a vendor of juice regarded highly on here and at the time i joined i googled their address and when i was passing it next i checked it out and there was no such business at the advertised address.
I hope we ae talking about the same one or that makes two.
I will add though that i wouldnt mind if the juice i was buying was made in someones kitchen but would have an issue with buying juice from someone who lies.

 

[MrTeaTime]

I know there is a vendor of juice regarded highly on here and at the time i joined i googled their address and when i was passing it next i checked it out and there was no such business at the advertised address.
I hope we ae talking about the same one or that makes two.
I will add though that i wouldnt mind if the juice i was buying was made in someones kitchen but would have an issue with buying juice from someone who lies.

Same here man

 

[Chris K]

I know there is a vendor of juice regarded highly on here and at the time i joined i googled their address and when i was passing it next i checked it out and there was no such business at the advertised address.
I hope we ae talking about the same one or that makes two.
I will add though that i wouldnt mind if the juice i was buying was made in someones kitchen but would have an issue with buying juice from someone who lies.

PM inbound mate.

 

[zouzounaki]

WE are demanding more for less, WE are demanding that producers do 100ml for £10 including 2 nic shots and free postage

Is this really the case though? I agree with your other points, but I always have a hard time buying into this idea. Unless you say the same about every area of life that involves the buying of products.

In the search for a way to make a buck, cheapness is a selling point in the absence of any other selling point. People buy 100ml for a tenner because somebody else made it available, because they thought they could corner a market and make some money. This is just the logic of capitalism and happens in every area of it. The race to the bottom. Many people are skint to varying degrees and see buying the item that isn’t the cheapest as something they’re unable to do. I don’t think there’s any way that we as a group of people can do something that will change this.

Where people think there is money to be made, and they don’t have anything else that will generate customers, this will happen.

 

[Simon G]

I know there is a vendor of juice regarded highly on here and at the time i joined i googled their address and when i was passing it next i checked it out and there was no such business at the advertised address.
I hope we ae talking about the same one or that makes two.

I'm not sure than means a great deal, there's lots of people that use postal business addresses that aren't their actual address, it's like having a PO box number or one of those 'offices to rent' that are just a unit with 50 answer phones in them. It's especially common for people that work from home for obvious reasons. It can be sketchy but not always.

 

[crustyfolker]

Going back a couple of pages here. Concentrates. I can't see any laws being introduced regarding concentrates for the simple reason that they are not only used for eliquid s, many are used in food products so how would any regulation be enforceable.
All liquids can if heated enough burn so would that not be classed as hazardous, with this i mean vaping at high watts will gunk a coil which the gunk can burn and could give off dangerous fumes. So will that cause a new rule on how many watts mods would be allowed to go upto? again though easy to work round with a mech. I just think there is so much stuff that has neither been included or could well be on the cards because the TPD was so ill thought through. I guess times could get even harder for us all

 

[painkiller]

In my experience and as know I work in vaping world, I find that most liquids these days are very generic. Despite being flavoured a berry it still taste like nothing with a hint of berry. Over the last 3 months of trying all the new liquids out that come in very few actually get some attention. The new nasty juice Gambino and Dillinger are pretty nice in addition to some of the new 25ml bottles like copped are not that bad. On the other hand 90% of the other liquids plain and dull. Anyone else noticed that since TPD even the biggest labels have never been the same. Its also about production cost and trying to lower the cost to make a better profit, faster steeping methods to pump out more but some liquids are like a fine wine it just takes time.
I know that my company are making a new range (though TBH a complete rip of other liquids and believe based on ephemeral liquids) but like most liquids i doubt take a lot of time to refine it. I just filled my bf 166 drone with "black widow" a juice that has taken me months to perfect, blackcurrent + lemon with a strawberry twist and has a bite to it like a premium should hence the name. Love and care but with the major increase in liquid manufacture its all gone to s*it, prices jacked up for bad quality premium i laughed i saw a 6x10 pack going at £25 ....on sale! i was like WTF lol.