E-cigarettes to be banned for under-18s announced NEXT WEEK

[Scoff]

I agree that they should only be sold to over 18's and that the majority of vendors would never sell vape gear to kids. I don't think it was aimed at the vendors we all use, it's for the dodgy corner shop owners who display there ecigs next to the sweets and don't care about anyone as long as they make a few extra quid.
Also, BBC news just said they are gonna be banned for the kids in England. What about the rest of the UK?

 

[@longlast]

It's on Sky News as well.

 

[Waspy]

Just watched this on the BBC.

Why was this released on a Sunday morning?

Prof Dame Sally Davies, England's chief medical officer, said:

"E-cigarettes can produce toxic chemicals"

What toxic chemicals exactly?

 

[madpiano]

I agree that they should only be sold to over 18's and that the majority of vendors would never sell vape gear to kids. I don't think it was aimed at the vendors we all use, it's for the dodgy corner shop owners who display there ecigs next to the sweets and don't care about anyone as long as they make a few extra quid.
Also, BBC news just said they are gonna be banned for the kids in England. What about the rest of the UK?

Those corner shop owners have been selling vodka and fags to minors whatever the law.
At the moment they only want to fine people that buy cigarettes for minors. Once they start handing out fines for buying e-cig equipment, they will effectively shut down internet shopping. One step at a time, they will get this non tax revenue banned.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[madpiano]

I usually wake up to BBC News. This morning they make this their most important news, repeated every 15 minutes. More important than a revolution in the Ukraine.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

Just watched this on the BBC.

Why was this released on a Sunday morning?

Prof Dame Sally Davies, England's chief medical officer, said:

"E-cigarettes can produce toxic chemicals"

What toxic chemicals exactly?

None and they have no proof of it either

 

[Purplefowler]

Sunday is traditionally a quiet news day so what better way to get the audience to listen than announcing it on a day whith little distraction (let's face it, this is more important than riots in Ukraine, Syria, the argentine economy etc!).

 

[VaperCaper]

Prof Dame Sally Davies, England's chief medical officer, said:

"E-cigarettes can produce toxic chemicals"

What toxic chemicals exactly?

Well "toxic" is one of those 'doesn't really mean what you think it means' weasel words.

Technically. All of them. Every chemical produced by an e-cig could be toxic.

Toxic is more a function of dose. Everything could poison you, provided that you ingest enough of it, including such evil nasty things as water and oxygen.

If you're talking to the average person then the phrase "can produce toxic chemicals" means more, 'might produce enough of a dose of a chemical to harm my health'. In which case the answer is none of them.


Back in 2009 a study by the FDA found contaminants in some of the early e-cigs on the market. Specifically di-ethylene glycol. Which is one of the chemicals in anti-freeze and IS a toxic chemical by both definitions.
This study was flawed and it badly misrepresented it's results. It tested 18 cartridges and found di-ethylene glycol in ONE of the cartridges tested at a level below 1%. Further independent tests didn't find any. No subsequent tests have found any, and in fact companies like ECITA now regularly test members e-liquids/carts for the presence of di-ethylene glycol using a GC-MS scan and to date have found ZERO (and presumably by this point have run thousands of tests)

Also in 2009 the same study found traces of Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines. Basically these are chemicals related to nicotine that it is impossible to remove completely. (USP BP Nicotine is 99% pure and that other 1% has got these chemicals in it) All NRT products that use Pharma grade nicotine contain these chemicals at the same levels as those found in e-liquid and a smoked tobacco cigarette has levels of these chemicals 1200 times higher.

NRT products have medical authorisations and they contain the same levels of these "toxic chemicals", in other words that level has already been deemed a safe one. So arguing this as the basis for toxic chemicals is more than a little disingenuous.

There is also the old fallback "nicotine is a toxic chemical" and yes, more than any other of the chemicals released by an e-cig this is technically true. However used as intended the dose of nicotine delivered is essentially harmless. Potentially a young child using a very high strength e-cig (higher than 36mg) MIGHT have an problem, but it's hard to say, and under 18s should not be using them anyway.


Basically it boils down to: If you are using the man in the street definition then they are lying. There are no toxic chemicals in e-cigs, and the 2009 study which found some small amounts of some has long since been discredited by multiple, more recent studies, of which the public health people by now should be more than well aware.

[link to CASAA article that goes into more detail (pdf)]

 

[madpiano]

Surprisingly the interview with the "expert" they just showed was surprisingly positive. Apart fro the "gateway to smoking" rubbish. He confirmed that they are way better than cigarettes.
And yes, it is true. We do not have longterm studies of ecigs. They haven't been around for 70 years yet. Are they going to tell us this for the next 60 years then? I think their problem is, that none of the studies so far show any damaging effects of ecigs. Years of brainwashing them about the damaging effects of nicotine makes them disbelieve all of the studies, it just can't be true in their little world. So they need to wait for further studies, and in the meantime just ban the things.
And what is it with the whole "adverts shouldn't be targeted at non-smokers". How do they expect for companies to stay in business? They need customers. Once they realize that nicotine is the same as coffee, similar effects and just as addictive and similar health issues (and benefits), maybe they will lay off and we will have the Starbucks, Nero, Costa equivalents of "juice" bars all over the place.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[Tutterz]

I love the whole 'omg toxicz its bad 4 u' argument from these airheads, I'd like to ask them what ingredient they thought was toxic, cause that must make Ice cream toxic too right cause that contains PG? Oh and toothpaste too since that commonly has VG in it.. And then of course almost every single fecking food in the world that uses artificial flavouring.. so that must make crisps toxic too judging by their intelligence.

I mean I'm not being ageist or anything here but it seems that the only people who are against ecigs, are all 45+ from what I've been seeing and reading. Two family members of mine are in the medical profession, ones 55 and is a head nurse, in the other is 31 and a GP. Both of them have never smoked and guess which one is against e cigs?