Muted flavour since I started building 1 year ago! (using aromamizer supreme v2)

[TheDeanmoz]

Hi, so my issue is a bit of a complicated one and I was wondering whether any of you could help me out!

So, I have been vaping for over 2 years now, happily off of the cancer sticks as soon as I bought a vape. I got into rebuildable tanks about 1 year ago now and it's saved me so much money, but I've always assumed that the flavour was a trade off for the cheap price compared to the pre-built tanks such as my previously used smok tfv4 mini and my current aspire cleito exo for flavour which give me flavour totally unmatched by any of my builds on my RDTA's and Drippers.

There's some key points I need to bring up so you know my situation (can just read the BOLD/titles if you're feeling lazy)

It's NOT the tank -
I'm using the aromamizer supreme v2, I have used drippers such as the geekvape tsunami 24 and i've used the geekvape griffin 25 plus tank and all of them have had flavour that is just meh compared to the aspire cleito exo and tfv4 mini. Obviously with the dripper I had slightly better flavour than the griffin 25 plus but it was barely noticeable.

It's NOT vapers tongue -
I have been told that it could be vapers tongue, however I did argue that I get great flavour out of the aspire cleito and not my rebuildable. Despite that I did try vaping unflavoured liquid for 2 weeks, it did nothing to help the flavour afterwards.

It's NOT the wattage -
I have tried a range of numbers that I run certain builds at, from really low to the point the coil takes ages to heat up, and as high as I can go without burning the cotton or getting dry hits, and everything inbetween.

It's NOT the liquid -
As I've said, I've been building for over 1 year now and over time I've tried so many different liquids with different builds and nothing's made a difference in the flavour hit, so the liquid i'm using can easily be eliminated as a factor to this.

It's NOT the way I vape -
I know this sounds silly (maybe to a few of you) but I have been suggested to try many different things on fresh builds and to continually do it as I vape, these are things such as blowing into the coils to let the coils heat up as you fire the mod and then inhale, I've been told to let go of the fire button 2-4 seconds before I finish inhaling as to let the coils cool down so it doesn't burn the cotton (as thick coils stay hot for longer after you've finished inhaling) because this may be reducing the life span of the coils, and I have tried all of that, and still do them depending on the build but it's had no difference whatsoever.

It ALMOST CERTAINLY isn't the wicking method -
After doing builds every week for the past year I have gotten used to wicking and the little things that make the wicking perfect in all the different tanks and drippers I've used. I know how to set the wicks to work efficiently in each tank and dripper i've used, I have tried all sorts of wick densities from really loose in the coil, really tight in the coil and everything inbetween. I have tried different wicking methods like the scottish rolling method, I have tried fluffing out the cotton ends or thinning them out with my needle nose tweezers. All I can say really is everything I've tried with the wicks hasn't worked and i've been through hundreds of thread and videos on how to wick properly.

It COULD be the cotton -
I am only saying that it could be the cotton due to the fact that I've never tried anything else other than Cotton Bacon V2, however I do not get the taste of cotton at all when I vape, and cotton bacon is highly recommended by all my friends, all the shop owners I've spoke to and many reviewers. I don't really see how it could be the cotton though, as I mentioned before, I have 0 wicking issues, the coils are always well saturated.

It COULD be the coils (all my builds have been kanthal) -
I have tried a HUGE range of coil types, most of them are pre-built from the same manufacturer (Demon killer), my current build is 5 wraps of their "alien clapton" wire (although it seems more like fused clapton wire) and it's still the same flavour. I have also used their little 8 in one, 48 coil pack which has a huge range of coils in it but they all give me the same muted flavour. I have also tried many different things with 24g kanthal and I admit I did get a bit better flavour with simple builds from the 24g kanthal wire from coilmaster but again, barely noticeable.


Okay, now that's over, onto this image.

As you can see, the cotton around the coils has turned brown almost as if it has burnt, the coils look a week old, however the wicks towards the bottom look brand new. Want to know why? I put this build in last night. Brand new cotton, brand new coils and from the start I've been getting muted flavour, I prepared it correctly, no hotspots, heated up evenly, cotton was perfect and wicks extremely well, I primed it properly and still I get this sh*t. I get this with any coil, no matter what liquid I use with any amount of sweetener. I started off at low watts, wasn't getting any flavour and barely any vapour, gradually turned up the watts until I hit the sweet point where I am getting the maximum flavour I can push out of these coils and it still tastes nothing compared to what this liquid tastes like in the cleito exo...

I hope that I haven't hit a brick wall with this, maybe some of you can suggest what I can do.
Perhaps you could recommend uk sites that you have personally used to buy your coils/wire from and what builds you are running and I could try that out. Bare in mind, I don't have the time to wrap my own wire.
Or if you personally have had a bad experience with the cotton i'm using (cotton bacon v2) you could tell me what you're using that you've found to be much better.

Thanks for your time!

 

[nwhornet]

I use SS316L & Brochrome (flat Ni80) both from Stealthvape. Normally simple coils (single & dual depending on tank/RDA) & occasionally SS316 Clapton (26g+32g). I use V2 but only in drippers/squonkers & do find it can be muted at times (although that might be my crap wicking) especially on the first few squonks. Find it can take a while to settle, as when I have tried it in tanks it can take a tankfull before I get the flavour. I too use the V2 & find better flavour quicker with Muji type pads as there's less time to break the wick in. The V2 is my go to RDTA although I have the Supreme, Lite & Aromamizer, all nearly as good, airflow on the V2 is smoother.
Speak to @Smut about getting some of his Aliens to try, well rated on here for the quality of his coils.

 

[Sp3ckyh0td0g81]

you say it couldn't be all the things you listed in bold but it could quite easily be a number of they things mate, you can't write anything off,

in the pic with the cotton looking almost burnt in the coil but fresh on the ends, is there a bit too much cotton packed in tightly with the coil ? i have found if the cotton is in there too tight that happens to me, i appreciate you have said you have 100's of wicking videos but there really is a fine line between too much and too little cotton

personally 9 times out of 10 any issues I've had with flavour, or vapour production, burning cotton,spitback etc is all down to the wicking process

this morning for example my new serpent mini RTA was struggling to wick and after 3 or 4 draws i could taste a wee dry burn in the background, i fixed it by literally cutting a ml of cotton of either end as it was just a tiny bit too much in the channel

i would also say if you have only used 1 type of coil, (1 manufacturer) it's worth trying a different coil setup, i know you say you don't have time to make coils but a simple single wire NI80 3mm int diameter 0.5 guage coil would take less than 1 minute to build,( i use that as a suggestion as that is what i currently have in both my wasp nano and Hadaly)
i have used pre built coils from different places (still to try @Smut coils but i will be) and i have found the best results are from the coils I've done myself, it's easy to use cheaper poorly made prebuilt efforts and that usually tells when you vape on them

buy yourself a wasp nano rda which is single coil, get yourself a roll of Nichrome or NI200 or Kanthal wire and try a simple build which is easy to wick and i almost guarantee unless you are having issues with your tastebud's the flavour and vapour production will be spot on,

it also could be the juice you haven't said what type of juice you are using.

I'm just thinking out loud here but as i say don't write anything off and go back to basics on everything and slowly ensure every part of your set up is spot on

hope there's something in amongst my ramble that potentially helps, I'm relatively new to building but i have spent a lot of time making mistakes and learning from them and i think the most important thing to appreciate is, you will always be learning new things, sometimes you will think its a perfect build and you vape and it tastes like crap and you have to tweak things here and there

another thing when you install your coils before you wick them are you giving them a fire to make sure there is an even glow? eliminating hot spots etc ? Ive forgot to do that plenty of times in a rush to vape and it messes up the whole thing

anyway I've typed enough and like i say hopefully something in there that helps

 

[speedfreek67]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is coil position in relation to the airflow, which can really affect the flavour. You want the air coming all the way around the coil, rather than just brushing the top of it, for instance.

 

[Chris K]

personally 9 times out of 10 any issues I've had with flavour, or vapour production, burning cotton,spitback etc is all down to the wicking process

^This^

I have a Supreme V2 and it's a fantastic RTA for flavour, but it's very easy to put a little too much cotton in there and suddenly, no flavour. Won't get many, if any, dry hits. Just a flavourless vape.

It's finding the balance between flooding the deck (too little) and no flavour (too much). Keep practising is all I can say.

 

[Wingsurfer]

Totally agree on the airflow, my plus was giving very muted flavour until I moved the coils out further so they are closer to the air holes.

Based on the pic it does look like the wicking is not effective. I found with the supreme the wick needs to fill the juice channels to prevent leaking but very loosely. Have you tried trimming a little off the ends of your wick to make them a litle narrower?

 

[jsixtysix]

Before you give up entirely I'd recommend getting hold of the postless deck - personally thought it was a much better vape than the one it comes with, probably to do with space & airflow but I can only speculate. It's under $8 at Fasttech - https://www.fasttech.com/products/6185900

 

[scrumpox]

For my money, it's not the wicking material but it might still yet be your wicking. I know you've said you've tried everything, too much too little ... to be fair, you say that your coils are always saturated though so maybe that isn't the problem. There's nothing wrong with CB2 though I find it needs one tank of juice through the wicks to reach best performance and no wooliness in the flavour. When I use CB2 I always open the fibres right out before gently rolling into a wick.

The discolouration you see is not burning juice - it's the vape condensate being picked up from the chimney / chamber walls. Do you use a friction fit wide bore drip tip with your Sv2? You must be using sweetened juices for the discolouration to happen so quickly. You'll find the brown colour starts at the bottom side of the atty as you vape it ... condensate runs back down the chimney into the chamber, sometimes drips from the chimney onto the coils and usually gathers at the bottom. Your wicks are touching the chamber walls and picking it up. Nothing much you can do about it except turn up the power a little and open up the airflow ... from AFC to drip tip.

The Sv2 needs a lot of heat flux in its large chamber/chimney area to produce the best flavour IME. I use Ni80 SFCs and aliens, 3mm ID on the V-deck and 3.5-4.0mm on the postless deck. Fluffing and thinning out your wick tails is best for fast wicking, by 30-50% depending on the coil ID and deck. Leave nothing but fluffy fibres resting on the juice holes. The thing with rebuildables is getting the heat flux right, then dialling the juice in via the power setting. If you have a decent mod you can play with the preheat settings and power curve ... and then there's TC if you like that kind of vape delivery. Switching from kanthal might be just the ticket ... try Ni80 or SS 316L, you can use 316L in either power mode or TC. Most vapers find the flavour is crisper than from kanthal builds.

I vape DIY juice, 70-90VG, the Sv2 wicks easily and flavour is excellent. Not all juices are good for low ohms and high airflow, bear that in mind.

As mentioned, coil positioning is important with Aromamizers, as with any rebuildable. Dual coils work best and should be placed as close to the air intake as you can without shorting. Some like the airflow to hit the coils square, others like to lift the coils slightly so you can see the bottom of the coil through the air screen. You need to achieve as little bypass of fresh air as possible. So your coils need to be about the same width as the airholes. Less wide will produce bypass, too long and the airflow won't cool the coils evenly, nor will you have enough room for your fluffy wick tails.

You say that you don't wrap coils yourself ... fair enough ... but you should still be able to add one wrap or unwind one wrap on premades. Even better would be to specify the coils you want and ask someone like @Smut to make them for you, so all you need to do is mount them. Don't be put off by paying more for bespoke service, Smut's coils are high quality and will last ages. They represent good value for money over machine made.

 

[TheDeanmoz]

For my money, it's not the wicking material but it might still yet be your wicking. I know you've said you've tried everything, too much too little ... to be fair, you say that your coils are always saturated though so maybe that isn't the problem. There's nothing wrong with CB2 though I find it needs one tank of juice through the wicks to reach best performance and no wooliness in the flavour. When I use CB2 I always open the fibres right out before gently rolling into a wick.

The discolouration you see is not burning juice - it's the vape condensate being picked up from the chimney / chamber walls. Do you use a friction fit wide bore drip tip with your Sv2? You must be using sweetened juices for the discolouration to happen so quickly. You'll find the brown colour starts at the bottom side of the atty as you vape it ... condensate runs back down the chimney into the chamber, sometimes drips from the chimney onto the coils and usually gathers at the bottom. Your wicks are touching the chamber walls and picking it up. Nothing much you can do about it except turn up the power a little and open up the airflow ... from AFC to drip tip.

The Sv2 needs a lot of heat flux in its large chamber/chimney area to produce the best flavour IME. I use Ni80 SFCs and aliens, 3mm ID on the V-deck and 3.5-4.0mm on the postless deck. Fluffing and thinning out your wick tails is best for fast wicking, by 30-50% depending on the coil ID and deck. Leave nothing but fluffy fibres resting on the juice holes. The thing with rebuildables is getting the heat flux right, then dialling the juice in via the power setting. If you have a decent mod you can play with the preheat settings and power curve ... and then there's TC if you like that kind of vape delivery. Switching from kanthal might be just the ticket ... try Ni80 or SS 316L, you can use 316L in either power mode or TC. Most vapers find the flavour is crisper than from kanthal builds.

I vape DIY juice, 70-90VG, the Sv2 wicks easily and flavour is excellent. Not all juices are good for low ohms and high airflow, bear that in mind.

As mentioned, coil positioning is important with Aromamizers, as with any rebuildable. Dual coils work best and should be placed as close to the air intake as you can without shorting. Some like the airflow to hit the coils square, others like to lift the coils slightly so you can see the bottom of the coil through the air screen. You need to achieve as little bypass of fresh air as possible. So your coils need to be about the same width as the airholes. Less wide will produce bypass, too long and the airflow won't cool the coils evenly, nor will you have enough room for your fluffy wick tails.

You say that you don't wrap coils yourself ... fair enough ... but you should still be able to add one wrap or unwind one wrap on premades. Even better would be to specify the coils you want and ask someone like @Smut to make them for you, so all you need to do is mount them. Don't be put off by paying more for bespoke service, Smut's coils are high quality and will last ages. They represent good value for money over machine made.

Thanks for the input! I will definitely be trying nichrome and stainless builds, and yeah I already do fluff out the cotton and thin it out. And I actually had noticed the condensation on the chamber walls, chimney and underneath the drip-tip. Here's the drip tip i'm using, it was actually provided in the box with my aromamizer supreme v2 which I wasn't quite expecting, along with the other delrin friction fit drip tip already attached to the tank.

Also, yes I can change the power curve with my device, unsure what you mean by pre-heat settings, is that the ramp up speed, I assume that is similar to the power curve, I can either adjust it in the app through Bluetooth or just change it on the device from - min, soft, norm, hard and max. I have always kept it on soft as I find that the coils would burn the cotton in half if put on norm or hard after a while. Perhaps this does relate to my wicking, I wasn't trying to be arrogant saying i'm the best at it, all I meant is that surely after trying so many different things with the cotton over time I would have found something that worked well for me!

Also, I understand that on the deck of the aromamizer supreme v2 if you position the coils so they are in line with the center of the holes on the posts, the airflow only hits the top of the coil, so i've been raising them up slightly so they are in line with the air flow or even so that it is slightly higher so the air hits the bottom 3/4 of the coil. Maybe I am not positioning the coils close enough to the air holes, so I will try that too!

Thanks!

 

[TheDeanmoz]

Before you give up entirely I'd recommend getting hold of the postless deck - personally thought it was a much better vape than the one it comes with, probably to do with space & airflow but I can only speculate. It's under $8 at Fasttech - https://www.fasttech.com/products/6185900

Cheers for the link I have heard good things about the postless deck