nemesis on ft :O

[ebayhomepc]

its peoples views mate I have now sat on both sides of the fence and I can say I see the difference and why people have the views they do and believe you me it isnt to protect their investment. I have a Nem and I am not likely to sell it so FT can do what they want I am happy.

The modders need to protect stuff (although I doubt that will stop em) simple as that. I do see why people buy the clones and I have no major problem with it but do think it would be best if they made it clear it was a copy

I do agree with names and even the logos ignore my last post

 

[Lord Grim]

I don't think cloning makes an enormous difference TBH in the current state it's in. Call me naive but the way I see it, as long as the clone isn't as good as the original, it'll never be as desirable. I've ordered this clone, but would still consider a real nemesis. I have sigeleis AND a roller (ok, not an exact copy but a "clone" nonetheless). I'm really not interested in getting into the whole "definition of a clone" argument either. And if clones and copies do become as good as the original, then surely the question should be "Why was the original so dear in the first place?". To put it in another context, lets assume that Anchor were the first people ever to make butter. You go into Tesco to buy some, but Lurpak is half the price. It's every bit as good, so which do you buy? While I disagree in principle with direct copying, I find it very difficult to disagree with market forces bringing the price of vaping down. While I await inevitable replies to this, try to remember that I am working under the assumption that these future clones will be EVERY BIT AS GOOD.

 

[Mawsley]

That's actually quite interesting and something I did not know You learn something new every day! Thanks Mawsley!

There's nothing to stop mod manufacturers registering the TM in Beijing while still at the design stage though in order top prevent this happening. China are bound by the Madrid Agreement Concerning the International Registration of Marks.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/05...-basics-for-the-fashion-apparel-industry.html


Here is their spot-on advice:

• Register your trademark as quickly as possible. Since China follows the “first to file” policy, registering your trademark as quickly as possible is the key to protecting your IP.
• Properly register your trademarks by registering multiple categories and subcategories of goods. As a preventative measure, companies should register their trademarks in as many closely related categories and sub-categories of goods.
• Vigilantly monitor infringement actions and use China’s administrative process. Companies should use the administrative process to cease infringing products and tools, impose fines, and seek court imposed raids if necessary.
• Use court proceedings to seek damages and to obtain well-known trademark status. As courts have become the main channel to protect IP, companies can use litigation to serve as warnings for other violators. Companies can also seek the court’s recognition of “well-known trademark” status in current or future cases for increased trademark protection.

Just what every China lawyer has been saying for years now to companies in all industries. We have been saying it because it is true and necessary. Here are some more tips on protecting against trademark infringement in China, all of which apply to the fashion industry:

• Register your trademark or copyright in your home country. Typically it makes sense to do this before you start doing business with China.
• Before doing business in China, consider which provinces do the best job of protecting intellectual property.
• Review and revise your own Web site with an eye towards removing anything that makes for a good target for intellectual property thieves.
• Stay ahead of the copiers by rapidly introducing new products, improving on your existing ones and building your brand image.
• Manage imitation by licensing your IP to Chinese companies.
• Have a contract with your Chinese factories that clearly forbids copying and specifies liquidated damages for violations.
• Use tracking technology to monitor the product you are having made in your Chinese factories.
• Have anti-counterfeiting elements put into your products and/or packaging. I am always amazed at what can be done in this arena.
• Monitor your manufacturers.

 

[Vern]

I should do this as an opinion piece on my blog, and may well copy/paste it there
Was doing a video review today and the camera batteries were depleted, so I had a good thing about what is logical to do.
This isnt necessarily what *I* would do, and it isnt advice to any mod maker. But if you play chess, sometimes there are just logical steps you have to follow, so this is what I was thinking
bear with, its long.
TL;DR, we are possibly all fools

Lets start slowly, as a musician, I want people to hear my music, I also want to pay the bills. I can release a song on my site, and push it via twitter and get some people to hear it and so on, and sell it for £5 via paypal.

or, do what everytbody does, send it to itunes for 0.99$. Its proven, it works.

Now, I'm sitting here with an idea for a tube in my head, but hey, it may not be perfect. Apple gets away with flaws because they are "careful design decisions", basically the branding/price puts the user into a different frame of mind.

so, back to my metal tube, I want to make it, get my name out there, make my ego BIG, have people enjoy my product, and pay the bills. If I make it and sell it for 20dolla myself, there is a chance it disappears into obscurity, the flaws are shown all over the internet, and it is just another "cheap" tube. I wont pay my bills this way

What I would do, is make sure the quality is there, tightly control manufacturing, ensure each one is checked by me. Then I can charge more, I'll make more (per item), and people will love it, flaws and all, because it have been blessed by Vern.

But I know this way, I can only sell so many per month, Bob doing my machine work is tired and he does other stuff too..and at some point china will want a slice and copy it.

I couldve sent it to china to be made day1, but then it might have bombed, and just been a cheap tube and hated

Now, I'm by the fireplace, having a good tote, and my options are as follows
1) do nothing, protect my brand name, sue the pants off every chinese person that dares make a copy, go crazy with trademarks and hope customs do their bit in helping enforce everything, and then carry on suing everybody
this is headache territory

2) move production to china, get my stuff made there, fly to china every now and again and make sure they are making it right, exactly as I want it. Keep the price almost as high. Check every batch, respond ot many more customers.
more headache

3) Sell the damn design to china, let them copy it, they pay me 50p/unit as a thank you, and I'll pretend to make waves and so on. If there are any defects, nobody cares as it is a clone. I dont have to deal with these customers. And suddenly my tube has status, if it has been cloned it must be one of the good ones.
no more headaches

So in summary, I had 3 choices
1) produce in uk exclusively, high costs
2) product in china, cheap and nasty
3) produce in uk, then produce in china by 3rd party.

The one that makes sense, form a marketing view, strategy view, money view...from every angle I can think of, is to make the tubes myself, then license it on the quiet to china, and pretend they are all really naughty and oh my goodness how could they.

This is just an opinion of mine, not of PoTV or anybody else as far as I am aware.

 

[Tim]

Personally, I have always found Kings, and Chi-You's, to be akin to items I would expect to find in a kitsch prostitute's boudoir, anyway IMO

Errrr... Kitsch Prostitute ... I thought I'd lived life to full but that's conjuring up an image that's quite disturbing .. And now I've forgotten what I was going to type.. No it's definitely gone.

 

[SouthernVaper]

I dont LIKE the name stealing, but I also don't feel sorry for someone who can rake in upwards of £80,000 AFTER production costs and then be upset at someone else because they CHOSE to forgo any type of protection on their creation/logo/product what have you. Not just the makers of this mod, any of them! It's their choice to protect their creations and if they choose not to because of a false belief that this industry is too small to fall victim to the thievery.

The unsuspecting? Ignorance is not an excuse when they internet is at your fingers and there are forums and blogs full of information available in the fraction of a few seconds.

As said im happy and tbh its their choice as you say. We assume because FT do one for 20 they are making alot but this may not be the case, it also could be.
They should protect their products who knows why they dont or if they did, would anything change or would they clone it anyway knowing that they are not likely to get sued.
Lets face it anyone with half a brain knowing what a nem is would know that for not even half the price it cant be the same thing. That doesnt however stop people getting ripped off later buying what they think is a real deal and isnt. If you believed it was and you paid say £100 for it you may not even question it was a fake and as you say this appears to be a very good one.

Its not us on these forums that will be effected as we have the information to hand its the many many people that are not, yes they have the internet yes they will look at pics but like me a actual owner may get it wrong and get ripped off that I dont agree with and never will, as I say praying on the unsuspecting.

Anyway thats my views as far as this is concerned...................... but as far as the clone looks they have done a real good job and may even appeal to those with one for a throw around mod that looks the part

 

[Merino-Teflon]

From the US Embassy in Beijing:



It is entirely possible that the manufacturer or FastTech hold the right to the name Nemesis in China and therefore aren't legally making clones. This is just supposition.

That's weak sauce supposition. But, none of this outrages me anyway. Not since the lobotomy. I like supporting creators and small business's, I am not going to be outraged at them for not wasting time and money ensuring a nation won't trade off of their works.
I'm also not going to get outraged that families are going to get employment and security from the mass manufacture of copies of their works.
You buy what you buy, I buy what I buy, neither of us are are shitting on our lives with cigarettes in the meantime, and as stated previously, the niche markets and the mass markets continue to co-exist.
Can dubious transactions and rip-offs occur, unfortunately so, life eh.
Now, if you are a small time producer who wants to get bigger, do all you can to look after your rights whatever way possible.
By the way, by you, I don't mean you, as such, Mawsley

 

[Mawsley]

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/05...-basics-for-the-fashion-apparel-industry.html

Here is their spot-on advice:

That's the kiddie.

So straight forward you wonder why no one has done it?

 

[Merino-Teflon]

On a side note, keep your emails from people you purchase your goods from as proof, people you sell to may wanna have a look, which could help the cause of not being ripped?