New wire question

[zouzounaki]

resistance only really matters to the extent you might find the vapour a wee bit cooler.

but what you want to do, to get the same ballpark resistance as your usual build, is use the same wraps but thinner wire. what gauge ss did you get?

 

[Crispycritters]

resistance only really matters to the extent you might find the vapour a wee bit cooler.

but what you want to do, to get the same ballpark resistance as your usual build, is use the same wraps but thinner wire. what gauge ss did you get?

But using thinner wire to build to the same resistance means you will be covering less cotton, resulting in less vapour. This will throw out everything else as you will need less air to give the same vapour density - and as the coil has less mass it will need correspondingly less power to heat efficiently.

Unless you are building to vape on a mech where the resistance will dictate the power level you vape at it is a lot simpler to just build a coil to a suitable size, accept it will have a different resistance as you are using a different resistance wire, and use those up/down buttons to fine tune the vape if necessary.

If you habitually vape a 1 ohm Kanthal round wire coil at 14 Watts and change it to an identical coil wound from the same gauge SS316L that has a resistance of 0.50 ohms it won't need double the power because the resistance is lower - it will have almost identical mass to a same gauge Kanthal coil and will need almost identical wattage to function correctly. Building to the same resistance, regardless of what type of wire being used is making life difficult for the sake of it and does absolutely nothing to improve the vape quality.

 

[zouzounaki]

But using thinner wire to build to the same resistance means you will be covering less cotton, resulting in less vapour. This will throw out everything else as you will need less air to give the same vapour density - and as the coil has less mass it will need correspondingly less power to heat efficiently.

Unless you are building to vape on a mech where the resistance will dictate the power level you vape at it is a lot simpler to just build a coil to a suitable size, accept it will have a different resistance as you are using a different resistance wire, and use those up/down buttons to fine tune the vape if necessary.

If you habitually vape a 1 ohm Kanthal round wire coil at 14 Watts and change it to an identical coil wound from the same gauge SS316L that has a resistance of 0.50 ohms it won't need double the power because the resistance is lower - it will have almost identical mass to a same gauge Kanthal coil and will need almost identical wattage to function correctly. Building to the same resistance, regardless of what type of wire being used is making life difficult for the sake of it and does absolutely nothing to improve the vape quality.

people say this, but i don’t believe it. i’ve made coils with three wraps that made plenty of vapour. i don’t think what you say is right.-

i reckon if he’s just replicated the same coil he’s used to - but using stainless wire - and puffing at the same power finds it a bit shit, it’s probably because the coil is heating less than his kanthal and it seems a bit weak because it is cooler than he is used to. thinner wire is the way, i think.

 

[Rickster]

Im on 6ish wraps SS 26.. Coming out at 4.20ish... at 12 watts is a nice ramp up long draw equivalent experience to say a 1.0hm -1.2 kanthal
7 wraps of SS 27 at 10.5 watts gives the same experience....if the OP is trying to replicate the draw then these are the wires and numbers he needs to play with and forget about the resistance and focus on the draw so to speak.

 

[Crispycritters]

people say this, but i don’t believe it. i’ve made coils with three wraps that made plenty of vapour. i don’t think what you say is right.-

i reckon if he’s just replicated the same coil he’s used to - but using stainless wire - and puffing at the same power finds it a bit shit, it’s probably because the coil is heating less than his kanthal and it seems a bit weak because it is cooler than he is used to. thinner wire is the way, i think.

That is why mods have up and down buttons. SS doesn't run cooler than any other wire - it can SEEM cooler because it gives a different (cleaner tasting IMO) flavour that seems to work well with fruits. If it does seem a little cool fiddling with that up button, or reducing airflow slightly can make a world of difference. If you believe a coil with half the mass or wraps is identical to one double the size then I'll just take your word that it has been your personal experience - but it has not been mine.

It seems easy to overlook that maybe someone using a different wire is experimenting with something different rather than trying to replicate a kanthal vape - if they want a kanthal vape they could just use kanthal for that.

 

[jimmy_sparks]

Well I’ve stuck in a SS build (28g 6 wraps 0.7ohms vaping at 12.5W) and it’s spot on! Very similar vape quality to my Kanthal wire builds but perceptibly cleaner tasting. Now I don’t know why I never tried SS before. It’s a winner!

 

[zouzounaki]

That is why mods have up and down buttons. SS doesn't run cooler than any other wire - it can SEEM cooler because it gives a different (cleaner tasting IMO) flavour that seems to work well with fruits. If it does seem a little cool fiddling with that up button, or reducing airflow slightly can make a world of difference. If you believe a coil with half the mass or wraps is identical to one double the size then I'll just take your word that it has been your personal experience - but it has not been mine.

It seems easy to overlook that maybe someone using a different wire is experimenting with something different rather than trying to replicate a kanthal vape - if they want a kanthal vape they could just use kanthal for that.

it doesn’t “seem” cooler, it is cooler. that’s just a matter of fact proven by science. aye he could turn his power up, but then the advantages of the stainless coil would need to be offset by reduced efficiency. i think thinner wire is the solution. 29 or 30g is the way to go.

 

[Crispycritters]

it doesn’t “seem” cooler, it is cooler. that’s just a matter of fact proven by science. aye he could turn his power up, but then the advantages of the stainless coil would need to be offset by reduced efficiency. i think thinner wire is the solution. 29 or 30g is the way to go.

How does thinner wire compensate for reduced temperature...

It will cover less cotton, hence produce less vapour - even if this vapour is mysteriously warmer it will be diluted by proportionately more air entering the chamber and will become cooler because of it.

You're either stuck in the 'correct' resistance for MTL mentality, or just bored...

PS The resistance is just part of the equation. When using a regulated mod where you can select a specific wattage if you want a 16 watt vape and chose to use a 1 ohm kanthal coil and 4 volts you'll get a 16 watt vape, if you instead use a 0.5 ohm SS coil at 2.8 and a bit Volts you'll still get a 16 watt vape. 16 watts is 16 watts - a 4 volt 16 watt vape won't pull more current from the battery than the 2.8 something Volt16 Watt vape as the 2.8 volts will be sent to the coil at higher Amps to achieve 16 Watts - the buck boost circuitry calculates how to convert the voltage and current and tailors it accordingly. if you are under the impression that the resistance affects how much current is drained from a battery in a regulated mod you are mistaken - it is 100 per cent down to the wattage you select, any slight difference in operating the buck boost for the different Voltage output will be miniscule. The entire 'correct resistance for an MTL vape' if you aren't using a mech is 100 per cent horseshit - you may find it works for you with a specific gauge of Kanthal doesn't mean it is automatically the answer for every other wire available. Fixating on resistance and ignoring everything else seems rather blinkered to me.

You may have a point that one wire may be slightly less efficient if you decide to use a higher wattage, but if you find an extra watt or two provides a better vape then it's a sacrifice worth making. If you don't find it to be better - then all you've lost is a couple of quid for a small spool of wire.to find out if you like it or not

 

[zouzounaki]

How does thinner wire compensate for reduced temperature...

It will cover less cotton, hence produce less vapour - even if this vapour is mysteriously warmer it will be diluted by proportionately more air entering the chamber and will become cooler because of it.

You're either stuck in the 'correct' resistance for MTL mentality, or just bored...

PS The resistance is just part of the equation. When using a regulated mod where you can select a specific wattage if you want a 16 watt vape and chose to use a 1 ohm kanthal coil and 4 volts you'll get a 16 watt vape, if you instead use a 0.5 ohm SS coil at 2.8 and a bit Volts you'll still get a 16 watt vape. 16 watts is 16 watts - a 4 volt 16 watt vape won't pull more current from the battery than the 2.8 something Volt16 Watt vape as the 2.8 volts will be sent to the coil at higher Amps to achieve 16 Watts - the buck boost circuitry calculates how to convert the voltage and current and tailors it accordingly. if you are under the impression that the resistance affects how much current is drained from a battery in a regulated mod you are mistaken - it is 100 per cent down to the wattage you select, any slight difference in operating the buck boost for the different Voltage output will be miniscule. The entire 'correct resistance for an MTL vape' if you aren't using a mech is 100 per cent horseshit - you may find it works for you with a specific gauge of Kanthal doesn't mean it is automatically the answer for every other wire available. Fixating on resistance and ignoring everything else seems rather blinkered to me.

You may have a point that one wire may be slightly less efficient if you decide to use a higher wattage, but if you find an extra watt or two provides a better vape then it's a sacrifice worth making. If you don't find it to be better - then all you've lost is a couple of quid for a small spool of wire.to find out if you like it or not

there’s nothing mysterious about it, joules law says that the higher resistance wire will get hotter than the lower resistance wire with the same current. this is true, use a range of gauges of stainless wire of the same number of wraps, put them on a mod and puff them all with the same power setting. the lightest gauge will get hotter than the heaviest gauge.

as for the amount of vapour, the increased temperature will obviously create more vapour which i am sure would offset any difference the gauge/surface area of the wire would make, which i suspect would be negligible anyway with plain round wire in the gauges we are talking about.

 

[Deadanddripping]

I've been looking everywhere online for a comparison of mass and airflow etc. and not found much so I'm glad to see this discussion. I've been trying to work out in my head what I want to get a tight airflow that doesn't get too hot.

I see what Zou is saying as a higher resistance would give slightly more current and that is the spicy part electricity. But yes it is a relationship and the mod will balance it all out.

My usual build around 1 ohm I used at 14 Watts always. Now I have a SS coil at 0.4 ohms and it seems best at 16W. So I'm thinking the lower resistance needs a bit more power to get hot enough to make the same vape.

I also found that the vape got worse as I added more wraps. 9 wraps was shit, presumably because all the extra metal took a long time to get hot enough? A short sharp blast is sufficient for my tight air concentrated toot.

I like seeing these kind of discussions as I'm often thinking about how I can improve my vaping experience. Don't fight guys, it's good to air ideas