Panorama On Teenage Vaping

[Toby iVapour]

if it was already declining for decades, and the decline hasn’t increased since youngsters have been starting vaping, then clearly it hasn’t had any effect at all.

That is simply an incorrect assumption, because the rate could have slowed or plateaued, if it were not for vaping.
How can a safer (some think more pleasurable) form of taking nicotine not have an effect?

i don’t know whether there are particular people who have a natural inclination to nicotine. i don’t think that’s a fact.

Of course it is; many types of people have a natural inclination towards nicotine -
e.g. 40% of ADHD adults smoke; 60% with bipolar disorder smoke; 71% with schizophrenia smoke.

 

[zouzounaki]

That is simply an incorrect assumption, because the rate could have slowed or plateaued, if it were not for vaping.
How can a safer (some think more pleasurable) form of taking nicotine not have an effect?

it can not have an effect because the facts tell it hasn’t had one.

Of course it is; many types of people have a natural inclination towards nicotine -
e.g. 40% of ADHD adults smoke; 60% with bipolar disorder smoke; 71% with schizophrenia smoke.

aye, this is true. i’m not sure it would be right to think of that as a natural inclination to nicotine though. more likely a consequence of nicotine being one of the very few psychoactive substances commonly available, out of the vast range that exist in nature.

 

[Toby iVapour]

it can not have an effect because the facts tell it hasn’t had one.

The only fact you're centering on is the decline in smoking rates has been fairly continual for years now (before vaping was available), but you are in denial about vaping having an effect on that. A rise in vaping (bearing in mind that many or most of them would have smoked instead of vaped, if vapes weren't available) points towards the conclusion that vaping has helped lower the rate of smoking. It's an obvious equation, but one you don't want to accept for some reason...

EDIT: also to add that statistic I linked to earlier on ASH -
Current use of e-cigarettes among 11-17 year olds is considerably higher among current smokers (57%) than former smokers (42%) or never smokers (2.3%).
Those 42% would almost certainly still be smoking if it wasn't for vaping (and the 57% are presumably minimising the potential harm of smoking by vaping as well, maybe with an intention or ending up quitting smoking).

aye, this is true. i’m not sure it would be right to think of that as a natural inclination to nicotine though. more likely a consequence of nicotine being one of the very few psychoactive substances commonly available, out of the vast range that exist in nature.

Today, however, there is growing evidence that this hypothetical drug [nicotine] has significant health benefits, particularly for neurodiverse people. Decades of research using the above-noted FDA-authorized medicines show that this drug benefits adults with ADHD, autism, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and Tourette’s syndrome.
Both human and animal model studies also show that it may have neuroprotective properties. For example, daily use dramatically lowers risk of Parkinson’s disease, and may also prevent or delay onset of Alzheimer’s disease.
Animal studies and numerous large human trials show that this drug lowers risk of Parkinson’s disease by 40% to 60%. Evidence for Alzheimer’s benefits is so strong that the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently invested more than $10 million in research grants to test conclusively whether this drug helps people with early stage dementia.

That (above) is from the article I linked to earlier, but if you want to check out a more detailed source of the therapeutic benefits of nicotine, check out the Safer Nicotine Wiki -
https://safernicotine.wiki/mediawiki/index.php/Nicotine_therapeutic_benefits

 

[zouzounaki]

The only fact you're centering on is the decline in smoking rates has been fairly continual for years now (before vaping was available), but you are in denial about vaping having an effect on that. A rise in vaping (bearing in mind that many or most of them would have smoked instead of vaped, if vapes weren't available) points towards the conclusion that vaping has helped lower the rate of smoking. It's an obvious equation, but one you don't want to accept for some reason...

EDIT: also to add that statistic I linked to earlier on ASH -
Current use of e-cigarettes among 11-17 year olds is considerably higher among current smokers (57%) than former smokers (42%) or never smokers (2.3%).
Those 42% would almost certainly still be smoking if it wasn't for vaping (and the 57% are presumably minimising the potential harm of smoking by vaping as well, maybe with an intention or ending up quitting smoking).



That (above) is from the article I linked to earlier, but if you want to check out a more detailed source of the therapeutic benefits of nicotine, check out the Safer Nicotine Wiki -
https://safernicotine.wiki/mediawiki/index.php/Nicotine_therapeutic_benefits

remember that it’s children/youngsters we are talking about specifically. vapes being a thing might marginally reduce the number of them who take up smoking but there doesn’t seem to be any data to support this and you’ve not provided any. that the reduction has remained the same suggests it hasn’t. i think there is also a likelihood that at least a chunk of the youngsters who vapes wouldn’t have smoked. there are many reasons for this, but probably the main one is that smoking stinks and has a very, very poor public image these days, much more so than when we were youngsters.

as far as nicotine’s potential therapeutic benefit for some folks, i don’t doubt that this it does have some but it doesn’t change the fact that the high prevalence of smokers among the groups you mentioned is highly influenced by the fact that there are only really two psychoactive substances legally available. so i still think it’s fair to say that a high prevalence of smoking in neurodivergent people or folk with schizophrenia or bipolar is probably mainly due to it’s availability, tmrather than any intrinsic superiority over a wide range of other psychoactive stuff that could also offer some benefits to these people.

 

[Toby iVapour]

remember that it’s children/youngsters we are talking about specifically. vapes being a thing might marginally reduce the number of them who take up smoking but there doesn’t seem to be any data to support this and you’ve not provided any. that the reduction has remained the same suggests it hasn’t. i think there is also a likelihood that at least a chunk of the youngsters who vapes wouldn’t have smoked. there are many reasons for this, but probably the main one is that smoking stinks and has a very, very poor public image these days, much more so than when we were youngsters.

I think I have supplied the necessary data, but can't be arsed to argue the toss over it (or find/supply more data), so I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree of the interpretation of the data.

 

[ZT]

remember that it’s children/youngsters we are talking about specifically. vapes being a thing might marginally reduce the number of them who take up smoking but there doesn’t seem to be any data to support this and you’ve not provided any. that the reduction has remained the same suggests it hasn’t. i think there is also a likelihood that at least a chunk of the youngsters who vapes wouldn’t have smoked. there are many reasons for this, but probably the main one is that smoking stinks and has a very, very poor public image these days, much more so than when we were youngsters.

as far as nicotine’s potential therapeutic benefit for some folks, i don’t doubt that this it does have some but it doesn’t change the fact that the high prevalence of smokers among the groups you mentioned is highly influenced by the fact that there are only really two psychoactive substances legally available. so i still think it’s fair to say that a high prevalence of smoking in neurodivergent people or folk with schizophrenia or bipolar is probably mainly due to it’s availability, tmrather than any intrinsic superiority over a wide range of other psychoactive stuff that could also offer some benefits to these people.

 

[knome]

View attachment 332265


View attachment 332266

No, not quite...
He's stopped posting accompanying Tweets...
I blame Elon...

 

[MarylinC37]

I just watched this and I have to admit the disposable vape industry does concern me a lot.

Vaping is such a good thing when it’s done right but the way disposable vapes are running out of control is really worrying because it is doing so much harm, for kids especially, but also for all the rest of the vapers out there who are benefitting from having a better option than smoking.

By buying disposables, people are paying for something that is easy and quick to use and requires no real effort. For kids especially that’s scary because they have no real idea at all what is in their vapes. There was one kid on the program who was given a vape that contained some form of ‘Spice’ and how are kids supposed to know the difference?

Probably most disposables are pretty safe but if you don’t know what’s in them sooner or later there is a very good chance you’ll run into something that’s not. Illegal disposables could contain anything. Counterfeiters couldn’t give a toss about safety and all they want to do is make things as cheaply as possible to get maximum profit. You have absolutely no idea where they are sourcing their batteries, nicotine or other ingredients and none of them get any testing to make sure they’re safe. Then again a juice tank is just an empty space and so you could put whatever you want into it and not just e-liquid which opens up a whole other world of dangerous possibilities.

I tried really hard with my family to get them all onto vaping but they all had busy lives and just didn’t have the time or the patience for maintaining tanks and mods so they all either continued to smoke or went onto disposables vapes. All they’re interested in is how many puffs they get for their money.

Here on POTV most of us have all had to go through the process of learning all the various technical ins and outs so we’ve learned how to do vaping the right way. Most people though don’t have any of that knowledge and haven’t got a clue what they’re vaping and are just trusting to luck and hoping for the best.

 

[zouzounaki]

No, not quite...
He's stopped posting accompanying Tweets...
I blame Elon...

there are no tweets any more. only Xes.

 

[Toby iVapour]

remember that it’s children/youngsters we are talking about specifically. vapes being a thing might marginally reduce the number of them who take up smoking but there doesn’t seem to be any data to support this and you’ve not provided any. that the reduction has remained the same suggests it hasn’t. i think there is also a likelihood that at least a chunk of the youngsters who vapes wouldn’t have smoked. there are many reasons for this, but probably the main one is that smoking stinks and has a very, very poor public image these days, much more so than when we were youngsters.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I was just reading this (about teenage vape & smoking rates in the US) -
Is US teen nicotine use increasing?

In 2011, 15.8% of high school students were “current smokers” and 1.5% were “current users” of nicotine vapes. By 2022, those numbers had reversed. CDC’s NYTS in 2022 shows 2.0% smoked and 14.1% vaped. Taking dual use into account to avoid double-counting, the 2022 total is 14.7%.

To believe that there is a “whole new generation addicted,” you need to believe that high school smoking would have suddenly dropped 90% over the past decade (as it did), all on its own, in the alternate universe where nicotine vapes do not exist. And you need to hold in your mind, as a matter of faith, that product substitution did not just happen.