The Dreaded TPD begins, be aware !

[scrumpox]

... only get through 2-3ml in a day (4 ml if I'm caning it) ...

Wow! I get through more than that just licking the final drip off the 150ml glass bottles I use for refilling.

 

[Badboybez]

I understand what you're saying but it looks like you're confusing the consumer pricing of nic shots with other apsects of the TRPR which are more directly influencing price changes. Bundling the entire TRPR up as "nic regs" is misrepresentation; as you correctly point out, much of this is to do with new packaging and presentation constraints and nothing at all to do with the price of nicotine itself.
I'm pretty sure that every savvy DIYer here on POTV was expecting a price increase for nic once the regs were fully implemented. It's a no brainer that 10ml bottles of max 20mg/ml would cost more than litre bottles of 72mg/ml. Not sure that we expected that price increase to be 1,000% though! Anyway, we each have our stashes now and we watch for whatever the resellers do next.
For clarity, I'm not a manufacturer myself, I only make a bit of juice for friends which I sell on at close to cost.

Hi scrumpox,

Yes, I understand your explanation for this, but the TRPR, is basically the UK's version of the European TOD directive, one of the main points of this is that it is almost totally related to the strength of nicotine in eliquids, and the volumes of containers, and tanks that can be sold.
This is what has caused all of the other changes to packaging etc.
So is why I use the blanket of "nicotine regs" in my original post, as I believe that is the reason why costs of several products will rise, whether that be packaging, manufacturing costs, or whatever.
For your info, I am pretty much the same as yourself, I make juice for my own use, and sell the occasional bottle to friends for minimal cost.
I would admit though that I do have an axe to grind over the effects of the TPD for myself.
Over the last 2 years I have considered starting a new business in the eliquid market.
Starting off in a small way, making high quality liquids, and supplying at very cost effective prices.
Then slowly expanding, and also offering a bespoke service, for the more discerning palate / client.
Making it possible to give up my current career for a more rewarding challenge that would provide me with a semi retirement situation by the age of 60.
So two years of planning, market research, designing a mixing system specific to the product in mind, and even down to coming up with the company name & logo.
Now two years later, all of my plans have had to be scrapped due to the bloody TPD, when we are now entering the process to leave the flaming EU anyway..............

Regards badboybez

 

[joedyer]

Just collected a Vestfrost VT147 -60C freezer from an eBay seller, a steal @ £200
Transferred my existing 10 Litre Pirate Vape, HiLiq and Darkstar stash from standard freezer.
I have also just received 10 Freezer Packs (4x500ml) from Darkstar. Total stash 30 Litres.
Total investment about £1000
Both myself and my wife vape 18mg mouth to lung
I have been making DIY Custard for the last 3 years and don't intend to stop.
My mix cost per 10ml is 41p
I mix about 600ml per session about every 3 months when I open and split a 600ml bottle.
This gives me a 3 month steep.
Doing the maths that's a saving of £4.49 per 10ml bottle based on a £5.00 average price.
Usage would be 240 bottles a year saving £1077 per year
30 Litres of 72mg will make 120 Litres and will theoretically last us 50 years.
Even at -60C the custard flavour may go a bit Donkey Arse after a few years but I will have won!

 

[scrumpox]

Hi scrumpox,

Yes, I understand your explanation for this, but the TRPR, is basically the UK's version of the European TOD directive, one of the main points of this is that it is almost totally related to the strength of nicotine in eliquids, and the volumes of containers, and tanks that can be sold.
This is what has caused all of the other changes to packaging etc.
So is why I use the blanket of "nicotine regs" in my original post, as I believe that is the reason why costs of several products will rise, whether that be packaging, manufacturing costs, or whatever.
For your info, I am pretty much the same as yourself, I make juice for my own use, and sell the occasional bottle to friends for minimal cost.
I would admit though that I do have an axe to grind over the effects of the TPD for myself.
Over the last 2 years I have considered starting a new business in the eliquid market.
Starting off in a small way, making high quality liquids, and supplying at very cost effective prices.
Then slowly expanding, and also offering a bespoke service, for the more discerning palate / client.
Making it possible to give up my current career for a more rewarding challenge that would provide me with a semi retirement situation by the age of 60.
So two years of planning, market research, designing a mixing system specific to the product in mind, and even down to coming up with the company name & logo.
Now two years later, all of my plans have had to be scrapped due to the bloody TPD, when we are now entering the process to leave the flaming EU anyway..............

Regards badboybez

Why not start up selling 0 nic juices with optional nic shots?
The budding entrepreneur should see the TRPR as an opportunity rather than an obstacle.

 

[Badboybez]

Why not start up selling 0 nic juices with optional nic shots?
The budding entrepreneur should see the TRPR as an opportunity rather than an obstacle.

Hi mate,

Oh, I fully appreciate your comments / help on this aspect, thanks.
Trouble is it's knocked the wind out of my sails at the moment.......
Your idea of selling 0 nic is a good, and valid point.
One of my current friends / client has moved from 20 rollies a day, to 18mg, then 12mg, & 6mg, and is currently using 3mg,
In fact last weekend he had a vape on my setup, not bad he said, then I told him it was actually 100% PG, no nicotine, no flavourings....
But it tastes slightly of cherry was his reply, as I said to him thats just the PG dragging the last cherry flavour hint from the wick.....
Interestingly, the previous weekend I tried 100% VG (purely for my own research) quite like it !, not actually 100% VG though as it was Aqeus VG 10% dilution, vaped it all day, and night on Saturday, the only downside was that it made me feel a little sickly when I went to bed.
So I can see where you are coming from, and will certainly look into it ;-)

But that means two more two years of planning, market research, designing a mixing system specific to the product in mind, and even down to coming up with the company name & logo.

It does though kick into touch my idea of also "offering a bespoke service, for the more discerning palate / client. if I then say to them that's fine, it will be with you in two weeks, but you will have to mix it again yourself with nicotine.....

But again, thanks for your input, and advice.

Regards badboybez

 

[scrumpox]

Hi mate,

Oh, I fully appreciate your comments / help on this aspect, thanks.
Trouble is it's knocked the wind out of my sails at the moment.......
Your idea of selling 0 nic is a good, and valid point.
One of my current friends / client has moved from 20 rollies a day, to 18mg, then 12mg, & 6mg, and is currently using 3mg,
In fact last weekend he had a vape on my setup, not bad he said, then I told him it was actually 100% PG, no nicotine, no flavourings....
But it tastes slightly of cherry was his reply, as I said to him thats just the PG dragging the last cherry flavour hint from the wick.....
Interestingly, the previous weekend I tried 100% VG (purely for my own research) quite like it !, not actually 100% VG though as it was Aqeus VG 10% dilution, vaped it all day, and night on Saturday, the only downside was that it made me feel a little sickly when I went to bed.
So I can see where you are coming from, and will certainly look into it ;-)

But that means two more two years of planning, market research, designing a mixing system specific to the product in mind, and even down to coming up with the company name & logo.

It does though kick into touch my idea of also "offering a bespoke service, for the more discerning palate / client. if I then say to them that's fine, it will be with you in two weeks, but you will have to mix it again yourself with nicotine.....

But again, thanks for your input, and advice.

Regards badboybez

Ah, from the sound of it I thought you were all ready to go and only the testing/registration was standing in your way.
The bespoke service sounds like black market to me, and all about having the right contacts.
Oh well ... back to the drawing board .... this time next year, we'll be millionnaires!

 

[Badboybez]

Ah, from the sound of it I thought you were all ready to go and only the testing/registration was standing in your way.
The bespoke service sounds like black market to me, and all about having the right contacts.
Oh well ... back to the drawing board .... this time next year, we'll be millionnaires!

Well pretty much I was all set to go, as you say apart from testing / registration, that was to happen this year.
But the fees seem to be horrendous, and in effect scupper the plans of any small startup business...........
Black market ? I have always disliked that phrase in anything I have done, I like to think of it more of "the grey market"
Ah well, off to bed, ready for the day job in the morning :-(
Funny you mention "this time next year, we'll be millionnaires" one of my nephews calls me Dell Boy, don't know whether to be flattered, or annoyed !

 

[Timwis]

Hi All,

Put this in the general chat, rather than a sub forum, as its important to us all.
I mix my own liquids, as some of you Apes already know.
Obviously I have stockpiled some 72mg nicotine lately, from various suppliers.

Was not overly concerned about the TPD regs, as a few companies said it would not affect their products.
Including one vape supplier who was setting up a separate company just to sell pharma products (incuding nicotine)
Plus another that is already a pharma only supplier.

With only a week to go before TPD, I decided to check my stock, and decided to buy a little more.

Shock horror !!!!!!
Most of the suppliers now seem to say only while stocks last...........

Checked Darkstar, to find the same message, earlier on my work computer.
Checked my last supplier, as I was impressed by their customer service, delivery, and packaging.

To my horror I found the price with them was now nearly double the price of Darkstar.

So just ordered another 2 litres of it from Darkstar.

But the most worrying thing for us all is this.
I have been buying from from Darkstar at £18 for 500ml, today I ordered 2 litres for £69 including packing & delivery.
But they now have a new section on the site showing their TPD compliant nicotine, that I assume we will shortly have to use.

The "shots" as expected are in 10ml bottles, at 18mg strength.
They come in packs of 18, at £15.99 (not including delivery)

Bloody shocking, that works out at £16 for 180ml, wheras I have been paying £18 for 500ml, and nic strength is much lower, so you have to use more for a mix.
Quick calculation including the change in strength = old stuff we are used to £3.60 for 100ml, new stuff we hate £35 for 100ml.

I don't blame Darkstar, that's the knock on effect of more controls, packaging costs, etc and the list goes on !

My best advice, get some in now if you mix, if you buy ready made jucie buy plenty of that !

As one of myfriends in local saidtonight when I explained it, he said "well the implications of that mean my favourite ready to use juice will go up to £6 or £7 a bottle, I might as well start smoking again !!!!!

Regards

Last time i had a moan about the mark up on some of vendors e-liquids it was not popular stating costs overheads staff etc i have worked in places where the materials where x amount and then there's all the overheads but the mark up is nowhere near the same. I think most people thought i meant all or most vendors i didn't. As far as i am aware the manufactures and suppliers rules have not changed on nicotine it's only the consumer the 20mg 10ml rules apply so they will be paying exactly the same for the nicotine at the strength they always have. So £3.60 dilute it down 4 fold with pg or vg (pg & vg costs me only about £4 per 500ml so imagine how little it costs them in bulk) and put it in 10ml bottles (again in bulk i doubt they cost alot) hey presto turned it into £35. I have learned my lesson, entirely justified all those overheads and man hours.

 

[Timwis]

you will still be able to get nicotine as before just not from vaping places

Good morning Tim,

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

It does from a tobacco/vaping associated business where there are suggestions and directions of use where as its blatant that it is being used for this purpose.

Outside of this, it is already pharmaceutically regulated and licenced to a 75mg limitation. Of which 72mg falls under.

We at The Alchemists Cupboard, from May 20th will no longer be able to sell this, but our sister company Nicotine UK will be able to handle all your needs for 72mg.

Kind Regards

Barry Caine
Managing Director


Please follow link below>

www.nicotineuk.co.uk

Hope that helps…

Kind Regards

Barry Caine
Managing Director


its not cheap but about half the price it will be with those shots and if not already i'm sure there will be cheaper places stock up yes i have but people have gone into panic mode like the christmas food shop 10 loaves of bread 50 gallons of milk enough food to last months most of it goes in the bin the shops are only closed for a day lol

 

[Mr Numpty]

you will still be able to get nicotine as before just not from vaping places

Good morning Tim,

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

It does from a tobacco/vaping associated business where there are suggestions and directions of use where as its blatant that it is being used for this purpose.

Outside of this, it is already pharmaceutically regulated and licenced to a 75mg limitation. Of which 72mg falls under.

We at The Alchemists Cupboard, from May 20th will no longer be able to sell this, but our sister company Nicotine UK will be able to handle all your needs for 72mg.

Kind Regards

Barry Caine
Managing Director


Please follow link below>

www.nicotineuk.co.uk

Hope that helps…

Kind Regards

Barry Caine
Managing Director


its not cheap but about half the price it will be with those shots and if not already i'm sure there will be cheaper places stock up yes i have but people have gone into panic mode like the christmas food shop 10 loaves of bread 50 gallons of milk enough food to last months most of it goes in the bin the shops are only closed for a day lol

It seems to me that they will be operating outside the law and will be subject to fines or prosecution if discovered. And at £162.49 per litre, who will shed a tear for them?