UK to raise smoking age from 18, by one year, every year.

[vapervince]

The government is doing quite well with alcohol.

If you mean that the govt is doing quite well out of the duty revenue from sales of alcohol, I`d agree, if you mean that the govt is doing quite well controlling the abuse of alcohol I would say that that is more in the hands of private and voluntary organisations imho.

 

[vapervince]

Human nature can't be trusted, yet the people who make the laws are humans and often very flawed humans. ... and I really don't trust them. If you don't think all the toffs are snorting lines of coke at parties, then I think you are being a little naive.

It's very complicated, those folk you see on skid row... It's never clear if they are crack addicts because of their situation or they are in that situation because they are crack addicts. I think it's often the former, so the drug addiction is a symptom of their situation, rather than the cause.

Honestly I think the law makers just think it's too bigger problem to even start trying to deal with. I also think there's a pretty good argument to say that some of the main reasons people end up that way and in those situation is the direct consequence of the actions of those people with the power to make laws.

I'm not sure, it's a massive subject because nothing exists in a vacuum. The 'drug problem' is so intertwined with everything else.

At some time in every current addicts life they made a conscious decision to try whatever it is they`re addicted to, unless you`re suggesting that someone is going round forcing poor kids to take drugs, a difficult upbringing may make kids more amenable to being pursuaded into a life of taking drugs but it`s still a conscious decision to go down that route.

 

[zouzounaki]

Yes I am, and the next time I come to in a puddle of my own piss or consider robbing my 90 year old neighbour for for my next bottle of juice I`ll consider turning myself in.

well that may be at least partly
because you are addicted to a drug that is not illegal and that you can buy in a shop. the use of illegal drugs is quite widespread and you might be surprised, but the majority of people who use them, whether recreationally or because they have a habit, aren’t sleeping in puddles of piss or robbing people.

Are there any safe hands when it comes to something as reprehensible and demeaning as hard drug use?

EDIT we`re derailing this thread, why not start your own?

i would definitely say the government’s hands, that have the power to regulate and legislate about stuff, are far safer than those of gangsters.

i don’t think it’s a derail, the thread is about a plan to gradually make tobacco an illegal drug. the discussion has developed to consider how it will be policed, and making comparisons with other illegal drugs is quite on topic, i think.

 

[zouzounaki]

Human nature can't be trusted, yet the people who make the laws are humans and often very flawed humans. ... and I really don't trust them. If you don't think all the toffs are snorting lines of coke at parties, then I think you are being a little naive.

It's very complicated, those folk you see on skid row... It's never clear if they are crack addicts because of their situation or they are in that situation because they are crack addicts. I think it's often the former, so the drug addiction is a symptom of their situation, rather than the cause.

Honestly I think the law makers just think it's too bigger problem to even start trying to deal with. I also think there's a pretty good argument to say that some of the main reasons people end up that way and in those situation is the direct consequence of the actions of those people with the power to make laws.

I'm not sure, it's a massive subject because nothing exists in a vacuum. The 'drug problem' is so intertwined with everything else.

none of it is even about human nature. as you said before, this way of thinking has only existed since 1916.

 

[Toby iVapour]

none of it is even about human nature. as you said before, this way of thinking has only existed since 1916.

But the problem (addiction to hard drugs => prohibition) existed before 1916, an obvious example would be the would be the Opium Wars in the nineteenth century -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

In earlier centuries, opium was utilised as an medicine with anesthetic qualities, but new Chinese practices of smoking opium recreationally increased demand tremendously and often led to smokers developing addictions. Successive Chinese emperors issued edicts making opium illegal in 1729, 1799, 1814, and 1831...

I think it is probably derailing, but I can see why you want to compare.. I just think that the comparison is probably incorrect for a number of reasons...

For example, as I alluded to before, (although not very socially acceptable anymore in most quarters) people are much more likely to smoke tobacco in front of others than inject heroin or smoke a crack pipe.

There is also no mention of making the act of smoking illegal, just upping the age limit to buy it every year.

 

[Rickster]

but we are stuck in a loop. to go back to the point that sent us away on this tangent, if it is the case that tobacco has or is becoming socially unacceptable and society/government think it needs to be subject to legal controls, then it should be seen in the same light as class a substances based on the potential for addiction and level of harm it causes.

this seems logically sound to me.

A nicotine addict like ourselves will be fully functioning for life, working...blah blah blah...a Class A addict won't be for long....don't believe me, take heroin for two weeks n see.
The drug class system may not be perfect, but there is a lot more to it than we might think...

 

[Simon G]

At some time in every current addicts life they made a conscious decision to try whatever it is they`re addicted to, unless you`re suggesting that someone is going round forcing poor kids to take drugs, a difficult upbringing may make kids more amenable to being pursuaded into a life of taking drugs but it`s still a conscious decision to go down that route.

No, I'm suggesting that people that end up in a bad way with a drug problem are often in a bad way before they started taking drugs. ... Being made homeless, not getting the health/mental health care they need. etc. The governments have the power to do something about those things. I'm saying I don't think there is enough emphasis on tackling the issues that create the kind of society where people make those decisions to go with hard drugs... and if society were in a better place less people might feel the need to go down that path.

 

[Toby iVapour]

No, I'm suggesting that people that end up in a bad way with a drug problem are often in a bad way before they started taking drugs. ... Being made homeless, not getting the health/mental health care they need. etc. The governments have the power to do something about those things. I'm saying I don't think there is enough emphasis on tackling the issues that create the kind of society where people make those decisions to go with hard drugs... and if society were in a better place less people might feel the need to go down that path.

Yes, but there's all sorts...

I've known people (most of us have) whose character has completely changed using hard drugs, and coming with it, a diminished lifestyle (in various forms)...

Put it another way, those that get say a crack/heroin/meth addiction, it hasn't exactly helped them...
.. if their life was hard before, then it's only gonna get worse...

 

[zouzounaki]

A nicotine addict like ourselves will be fully functioning for life, working...blah blah blah...a Class A addict won't be for long....don't believe me, take heroin for two weeks n see.
The drug class system may not be perfect, but there is a lot more to it than we might think...

there are loads of functioning heroin addicts out there who work jobs, have weans, normal lives etc. just like there are loads of functioning alcies.

 

[zouzounaki]

Put it another way, those that get say a crack/heroin/meth addiction, it hasn't exactly helped them...
.. if their life was hard before, then it's only gonna get worse...

you could say the same about smoking. could be 150 quid a week habit and ten or twenty years in they’ll be struggling to breath and walk up a set of stairs.